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Old 12-13-2009, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Oneness and the Trinity...Can anyone explain the differences for me? I saw this addressed by Walter Martin (Thanks alan..) and while listening I could not distinguish the difference.. it seems the same to me.

Please help!
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Oneness and the Trinity...Can anyone explain the differences for me? I saw this addressed by Walter Martin (Thanks alan..) and while listening I could not distinguish the difference.. it seems the same to me.

Please help!
Something can be one thing and made up of multiple parts. Like an atom. Proton, neutron, and electron. Three different types of sub atomic particles which make up one atom. And its(atom) not just three(particles), that is to say only one of each type, but many. Or think of a triangle, three sides, one shape or object. Its the body politic of the divine. God in his absolute separation from Creation withing eternity, the father. God manifest throughout his creation, permeating all things, the incorporeal spirit of the divine. And God manifest and incarnate as a single corporeal entity within creation, the logos-demiurgos ... That is to say the creator of worlds, all thing visible and invisible. They are three aspects of the one true God. And God is even now more than three, he is four, in that God manifest and indwells the believer, the body/bride of Christ. So a re the four letters of the tetragrammaton, "Yod He Vav He" ... The Letter "He" repeating the name as the holy spirit in its different states of manifestation, as both the shekinah and the indwelling spirit of Christ.
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:18 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Oneness and the Trinity...Can anyone explain the differences for me? I saw this addressed by Walter Martin (Thanks alan..) and while listening I could not distinguish the difference.. it seems the same to me.

Please help!
I can explain how they are applying the Oneness so that we may see the error.

Oneness is declaring that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit in His place and therefore the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ so that every follower of Oneness will relate to God through the Holy Spirit instead of the risen Saviour before that throne of grace. Oneness shares rudiments found in the world like new age channelers with their spirit guides, but...

...the truth is all invitations points to Jesus to have that personal relationship with God so that God can call those out of those rudiments in the world that seek after spirits and worship the spirit.

Oneness blurs the office and title and glory that belongs specifically to the Son with the role of the Holy Spirit and that should not be done since the role of the Holy Spirit will not speak of himself but testify of the Son in seeking His glory as His name is above every other name: Jesus.

That is how one sees the difference is in how they are applying their beliefs in practise and in their wordings.
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:51 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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So in a nutshell:

Oneness points to the Holy Spirit to have that relationship with God.

Scriptures and the indwelling Holy Spirit points us to the Son Whom is before that throne of grace for us.

Trinity may have the Godhead explained, but the worship of all three is not in according to the scriptures since the indwelling Holy Spirit does not seek that worship when testifying to glorify the Son's name as above every other name.

The Holy Spirit is God, but all invitations and the scriptures and the indwelling Holy Spirit are all three pointing to the Son to have that personal reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only way to call those out of the rudiments in the world in how they seek after spirits and worship them as in:

The American Indians chanting and dancing for the Great Spirit to come where they expereince a sense of drunkenness as testified as to why they took to alcohol for it reminded them of that expereince.

Or the American Indians that commune with their animal spirit guide.

God would call them out to a personal relationship with Him through the Son and that is why there are no invitations nor doors to the Holy Spirit and why the indwelling Holy Spirit is still pointing believers to go to the Son so as to avoid false spirits as well as false prophets.

The Father can only be honoured and glorified through the Son. John 5:22-23 & John 13:31-32 & John 17:1-5
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:11 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 1,395,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Oneness and the Trinity...Can anyone explain the differences for me? I saw this addressed by Walter Martin (Thanks alan..) and while listening I could not distinguish the difference.. it seems the same to me.

Please help!
Here is the way I see the Oneness of God (or the Trinity), and how I try to understand it:

I see the term "God" as a title of the divine Name. The divine and proper Name is YHWH (YHVH ?), but more commonly translated in English as: Jehovah.

The name Jehovah is comprised of three distinct Persons, each having a distinct title: "Father", "Son" and "Holy Spirit". The "Father" is a title of Jehovah. The "Father" is a distinct Person of none, neither begotten nor proceeding (going forth) from anything. The "Son" is a title of Jehovah, and is also a distinct Person. The "Son" is eternally begotten of the "Father" and was manifested to the world as Jesus. The "Holy Spirit" is a title of Jehovah and is a distinct Person who eternally proceeds from both the "Father" and the "Son". All three are distinct Persons and each are eternal.

Within this context of Oneness, the titles of Jehovah are:

"Father", "Son", and "Holy Spirit".

The "Son" is Jehovah, that being His proper name. Although the title "God" appears most often associated with the title "Father", there seems to be considerable debate (at least outside mainstream Christianity) if this title is ever actually given to Jesus, or if Jesus ever refers to Himself, directly or indirectly, as such. I personally believe there are both OT & NT passages that do give Jesus (as the "Son" or "Son of God") the title "God". But even if it were demonstrated otherwise, and that the title "God" is strictly used in conjunction with the title "Father", Jesus is Jehovah, the God of Israel, manifested in the flesh.
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Something can be one thing and made up of multiple parts. Like an atom. Proton, neutron, and electron. Three different types of sub atomic particles which make up one atom. And its(atom) not just three(particles), that is to say only one of each type, but many.
Nice Ironmaw...did you ever watch the Truth Project?

I like to use that analogy as well.
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Old 12-13-2009, 05:48 PM
 
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God the father, God the son Jesus, God the Holy Spirit, are one God If you add the children of God and all the Lord Gods heavenly host represents one for all and all for one. See the devil divides up the people of the earth with color creed, nation, race, ideas, politics, body type, and the Lord God brings his children all together as one. Christianity is the only religion of the earth that believe in a Son of God and his Family. All other deity believing religions believe in the one lonely God. Buddhism does not have a Deity God but does believe in spirits and ghosts.
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Old 12-13-2009, 10:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Nice Ironmaw...did you ever watch the Truth Project?

I like to use that analogy as well.
No i Haven't ... I have never even heard of it until now. I don't practice organized religion, so i suppose it comes as no surprise that i haven't heard of it ... Sounds interesting, though i am always leery of anything that promises to reveal truth at the price of admission, especially when it comes to the gospel. If the people behind it ever choose to make it available for free, maybe ill take some time and look into it.
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:50 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
No i Haven't ... I have never even heard of it until now. I don't practice organized religion, so i suppose it comes as no surprise that i haven't heard of it ... Sounds interesting, though i am always leery of anything that promises to reveal truth at the price of admission, especially when it comes to the gospel. If the people behind it ever choose to make it available for free, maybe ill take some time and look into it.
The reason I ask is because your analogy was in there.

Ironmaw, this has nothing to do with organized religion, which you follow Christian Universalism, which is organized whether you want to accept it or not. You follow the teaching of some early church fathers and their doctrines. I am still trying to figure out why you bash religion and doctrine that is organized, when you follow the same very thing, but only coming from your selected view, thus claiming to be "different" from every one else.

It bewilders me.

Universalism is the very same thing IMO, a secret "knowledge" that the church has been unaware of for years...that to me..sounds a little "iffy".

On a lighter note though, universalist, catholic, protestant, and just about every sect of the faith has had several Full Preterists within, more so than everyone wants to admit, so that view, as it appears, has been in effect longer and more consistent in truth, and more consistent in Biblical exegesis and interpretation, relying on the scripture alone, sided with historical evidence that provides accurate fulfillment, than any other view of the Christian eschatological sect.

The trinity is just a doctrine based on the Oneness that the scripture teaches, just as the millennium is a view, and some feel, a doctrine based in the years in between the first and second coming of Christ, but neither of them are mentioned in the Bible, so they are just names, to identify what the scripture teaches. Oneness and the Trinity are in unison, as they are the same explanation with two words, about the same nature of God.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:23 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,850,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
The reason I ask is because your analogy was in there.

Ironmaw, this has nothing to do with organized religion, which you follow Christian Universalism, which is organized whether you want to accept it or not. You follow the teaching of some early church fathers and their doctrines. I am still trying to figure out why you bash religion and doctrine that is organized, when you follow the same very thing, but only coming from your selected view, thus claiming to be "different" from every one else.

It bewilders me.

Universalism is the very same thing IMO, a secret "knowledge" that the church has been unaware of for years...that to me..sounds a little "iffy".

On a lighter note though, universalist, catholic, protestant, and just about every sect of the faith has had several Full Preterists within, more so than everyone wants to admit, so that view, as it appears, has been in effect longer and more consistent in truth, and more consistent in Biblical exegesis and interpretation, relying on the scripture alone, sided with historical evidence that provides accurate fulfillment, than any other view of the Christian eschatological sect.

The trinity is just a doctrine based on the Oneness that the scripture teaches, just as the millennium is a view, and some feel, a doctrine based in the years in between the first and second coming of Christ, but neither of them are mentioned in the Bible, so they are just names, to identify what the scripture teaches. Oneness and the Trinity are in unison, as they are the same explanation with two words, about the same nature of God.
Actually it is my understanding that these (trinity and oneness doctrine) are not the same. Trinity states that there are 3 distinct yet equal parts of God. Oneness is the concept of the oneness of God. But that is all I can find. However, from my research it is clear that oneness believers think the trinity doctrine is evil.
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