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Old 12-16-2009, 11:47 AM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Following another Jesus is bad.

I will pray for you.
Philippians 2:5-6 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.
Jesus did not hesitate to claim equality with God the Father. The Greek word for equal in John 5:18 is isos, as in an isosceles, or equal-sided, triangle. Jesus was and is “in very nature God,” and therefore was not blaspheming by claiming to be God. The disbelieving Jews had correctly heard Jesus to be making this claim to full deity, even though they rejected His claim.

 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
27,773 posts, read 43,636,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
It's in the bible.
Excuse me where?

The Bible says that during Jesus' ministry the people, in their minds, thought that only God could forgive sins?

I would like to read that.



Now I do agree that God has the authority to forgive sin.
And I agree that God can give that authority to anyone of whom He choses.



When a prophet is ministering to people, and God speaks to him; I should hope that the prophet acts on whatever God has told him.

In this case, Jesus was told that he could forgive sin.

I am fine with that.



I am not aware of any passage which says that only God can do this.

Nor am I aware of any passage which says that those people around Jesus were thinking it.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
27,773 posts, read 43,636,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
Philippians 2:5-6 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.
Jesus did not hesitate to claim equality with God the Father. The Greek word for equal in John 5:18 is isos, as in an isosceles, or equal-sided, triangle. Jesus was and is “in very nature God,” and therefore was not blaspheming by claiming to be God. The disbelieving Jews had correctly heard Jesus to be making this claim to full deity, even though they rejected His claim.
An isosceles triangle has three equal sides and three equal angles, but one triangle can be entirely different size than another isosceles triangle.

Jesus had / has the same angle as God. They see things the same way.

The same tilt to his kilt as God. They have had a meeting of the minds and they agree with each other.

Jesus did not say 'equal' as in '=' he said that he has the same tilt, they agree.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:19 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 6,713,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. "

And He is saying to them, "Whose is this image and the inscription? They are saying, "Caesar's.Then He is saying to them, "Be paying, then, Caesar's to Caesar, and God's to God."
(Matthew 22:20-21 CLV)

Was that image literally Caesar?

2Co 4:4 in whom the god of this eon blinds the apprehensions of the unbelieving so that the illumination of the evangel of the glory of Christ, Who is the Image of the invisible God, does not irradiate them."

Christ is like the image on the coin. That image REPRESENTS God but it can't be the very One it represents.

Your arm, legs etc and the image on a coin is comparing apples to aardvarks.
Lets look at another scripture concerning Christ ...

First let us look at the Greek in John 1:1, at least the last few words that you say should be translated as the word was toward God ...

kai (and, also, even, indeed, but) logos (spoken word) ēn (was, were) theos (deity, God) ...


The Greek word for toward is "eis" ... I do not see this word in that verse. There is only the verb "ēn" and no preposition follows it. Hww are you deriving the translation "was toward"?

Now lets look at another scripture concerning Christ ...


Hbr 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


This verse is clearly defining Jesus in a way that only God is ever described in the bible. No other man or human being in the bible is ever described as unchanging in essence ... For all men must be born again or renewed in the spirit. Jesus never required to be born again or renewed, because he was the same before, is the same at present, and will always be the same in the future. ...

Hbr 13:8 Is obviously a reference to ...


Psa 102:25-27
Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.




And ...



Mal. 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.




And again ...




Ec. 3:14
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.




And yet again ...




Jas. 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.




Only God is unchanging, and so is Christ who is also unchanging, God.




Also notice ...



Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.




Who is Christ if he is not the savior? And who beside God is the savior? Therefore who is God if not Christ?



 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,588,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Excuse me where?

The Bible says that during Jesus' ministry the people, in their minds, thought that only God could forgive sins?

I would like to read that.
Mark 2...
5When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. 6But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
27,773 posts, read 43,636,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
Mark 2...
5When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. 6But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
Very good, thank you.

So when confronted with people reasoning this, he sat down and explained the trinity to them right?

Who God was, and how these things worked was on their minds, so he must have.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
27,773 posts, read 43,636,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
...
Hbr 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


This verse is clearly defining Jesus in a way that only God is ever described in the bible. No other man or human being in the bible is ever described as unchanging in essence ... For all men must be born again or renewed in the spirit. Jesus never required to be born again or renewed, because he was the same before, is the same at present, and will always be the same in the future. ...
A few years after Christ Jesus' ascension this letter was written.

Christ Jesus was the same when he ascended, as he was when this letter was written, and he will be the same 2,000 years from now, as folks will be arguing over it.

It makes no claims that Jesus pre-existed.

God is unchanging in essence.
Christ Jesus, since his ascension is unchanging in essence.

Okay fine.

 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,588,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. "
What translation is this?
 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 3,588,575 times
Reputation: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Very good, thank you.

So when confronted with people reasoning this, he sat down and explained the trinity to them right?

Who God was, and how these things worked was on their minds, so he must have.
Don't know, He may have and it's just not recorded in the Bible.

Or, we could just go by what the Bible says, which is, they knew only God could forgive sins, and Jesus told them he had every right and authority to do so.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 01:19 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 156,732 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
Don't know, He may have and it's just not recorded in the Bible.

Or, we could just go by what the Bible says, which is, they knew only God could forgive sins, and Jesus told them he had every right and authority to do so.
We are told that God has given Jesus that authority (when you are given something before it is given you do not have it)

I do agree that Jesus has the authority to forgive sins, and that is because GOD has GIVEN that authority to his SON - that does not make him God.
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