U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-17-2009, 03:07 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,007,964 times
Reputation: 629

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Which is what separates Christians from the rest of the world that follows the teachings of good people.
Agree sciotamicks . . . . . . .

 
Old 12-17-2009, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,881 posts, read 4,823,717 times
Reputation: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
I guess I view it like the birth of a baby - the embryo becomes the fetus, becomes the baby which is seen, to me the birth is when we are resurrected in the Spirit.

In scripture we are told of remnants and seeds

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


While we are in the flesh we are in the body of sin
But we walk by the Spirit and not the flesh....we are a NEW CREATION/BORN AGAIN when the Spirit dwells in us....are we not?
 
Old 12-17-2009, 04:45 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,165,640 times
Reputation: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
But we walk by the Spirit and not the flesh....we are a NEW CREATION/BORN AGAIN when the Spirit dwells in us....are we not?
Agreed. Jesus Himself said:

Jhn 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 
Old 12-17-2009, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 4,992,377 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
But we walk by the Spirit and not the flesh....we are a NEW CREATION/BORN AGAIN when the Spirit dwells in us....are we not?
Yes that we are, but we are still subject to the flesh, thus we sin, and must come to terms with that.

Christy, you're a preterist right?

The body, that Paul speaks of in 1 Cor 15 and 2 Cor 5 are but one, the corporate body of Christ, the incorruptible that those at that time eagerly awaited to receive. Before the Parousia, mankind went to Sheol and awaited their redemption, in their corruptible body only without the spiritually incorruptible. Now, after the Parousia, this is not a factor anymore. The incorruptible body that Christians are part of has already been obtained. Christians are spotless in the sight of God, because that incorruptible body, or white robe, the heavenly house, is the same body as what was corruptible, yet it is raised.

There are not two bodies, separate, in play here, but only one. What Paul expounds in 1 Corinthians 15 is exactly that. This body is transormed, from one to another, so as long as we are in this one, the corruptible, which we are housed with and where our spirit groans within, we are literally, screwed, for lack of a better word.

Let me be clearer. if a brand new spiritual body is given to the soul of a believer, then how can it be said that this body is "raised"?
The corporate body view preserves the traditional exegesis in that very same "body" that was sown to the very same body that is raised. That is the white robe, the heavenly tabernacle that was made without hands/flash, and houses our spirit/soul. This spiritual body is of course is not that of the flesh and bones, for neither can inherit the kingdom, and what goes into the ground stays there, but what is raised is the same body received at birth, that is the physical birth and is transformed into the incorruptible. Paul's syntax is clear about this.

So in reality, I really believe you are going to look like you when you are raised. But right now, what you walk in is your flesh, and it is subject to the folly of the flesh, but it is your spiritual body, which is what God sees, which was already taken care of at the Parousia forever.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 05:15 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 187,344 times
Reputation: 351
sciotamicks,

When you say that there is no difference between soul

G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'



and spirit
G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah

Why in Corinthians is there a distinction made between what is the natural body


G5591
ψυχικός
psuchikos
psoo-khee-kos'
From G5590; sensitive that is, animate (in distinction on the one hand from G4152, which is the higher or renovated nature; and on the other from G5446, which is the lower or bestial nature): - natural, sensual.

and the spiritual body

G4152
πνευματικός
pneumatikos
phyoo-mat-ik-os'
From G4151; non-carnal, that is, (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious: - spiritual. Compare G5591.

And it seems to relate to the difference between what is sown corruptible and raised incorruptible. And the same distinction is made between Adam and Jesus.

To me it seems the soul seems to be sown in the body and the spirit is raised from the death of the soul

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 4,992,377 times
Reputation: 420
meerkat,

How is a body raised from nothing and given another?
 
Old 12-17-2009, 05:54 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 187,344 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
meerkat,

How is a body raised from nothing and given another?
Hmm

I am just trying to read scripture and get the interpretation of what it is saying.

I do not believe that the soul or the spirit are "nothing" it seems to say that the soul will "die" however what is said is that through Jesus by the Holy spirit it will be "quickened" raised.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,186,422 times
Reputation: 932
So after ALL been said and done, it all boils done to: "Do I believe it or not?" What else are you seeking to find?
 
Old 12-17-2009, 06:30 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 187,344 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
So after ALL been said and done, it all boils done to: "Do I believe it or not?" What else are you seeking to find?
Study to show yourself approved ........
 
Old 12-17-2009, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 4,992,377 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Hmm

I am just trying to read scripture and get the interpretation of what it is saying.

I do not believe that the soul or the spirit are "nothing" it seems to say that the soul will "die" however what is said is that through Jesus by the Holy spirit it will be "quickened" raised.
Paul is talking about one body, first corruptible, the next incorruptible. These two aspects are one body.....the corruptible raised into incorruptible.

What happened/happens at the Parousia is just that...the raising. This is something that we cannot see or touch in this mortal state. This is something that will inherit the kingdom, for it is not flesh or bones....it is raised.

Christ's body was a SIGN of what the church was/are going to receive.

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

His body was not Flesh and Bones, it was spirit. And why did He even use the Flesh and Bones terminology, and not Flesh and Blood?

Because His blood was already spilt, for us.
Why did He tell Mary to not touch Him?

2 Cor 5:16,17 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more. Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

In Christ, now, we are a new creation.

Read 2 Corinthians 5 to get a better picture of this body.
Or better yet, read up on the Corporate Body View.
Become familiar with it. You will be reveled.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top