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Old 12-18-2009, 02:31 PM
 
Location: USA
1,882 posts, read 3,824,724 times
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Quote:
Jesus was "true God and true man." Because man is mortal, the part of His nature that was "true man," and only that part, did indeed die.
That's right. I didn't reply to C.Girl earlier as I just assumed she knew. Jesus was 100% man - He was/is also 100% God.

He died on a cross for us. The sacrifice was made on the cross at Calvary. He was crucified, because of our sins.

Recognize Him now, or recognize Him later. He is God, and Lord of all.

 
Old 12-18-2009, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 4,944,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post

If Jesus is God, as you purport, there was no real death....because GOD can't die. So what sacrifice was made?
Because God took on human form and therefore die a natural death.
Good grief, what is so difficult here?
 
Old 12-18-2009, 02:55 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 6,711,130 times
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Really read these passages ... Look closely at what is being said ...

John 14:8-11
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.


Jhn 20:25-28
25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"


Do you believe that Jesus is you lord and God, the one and only savior? When Jesus told Thomas to "Stop doubting and believe!", what Did Thomas say now believing? He said MY lord and MY GOD! ... We all should stop doubting and believe that the lord Jesus is our God.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 12-18-2009 at 03:05 PM..
 
Old 12-18-2009, 03:04 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,518,390 times
Reputation: 1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Because God took on human form and therefore die a natural death.
Good grief, what is so difficult here?
Yes ,God took on human form but the Father didn`t take on human form!
Good grief,what is so difficult here?
 
Old 12-18-2009, 03:13 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 6,711,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Because God took on human form and therefore die a natural death.
Good grief, what is so difficult here?
Right ... God the father outside of time is not natural in the way that the bible refers to natural when it refers to the natural world. He is outside of time and space, and the created universe of universes. Outside of all creation is the father, one being, becoming a part of all that he has created, through Christ - that is to say that he is only begotten of God in the natural flesh, made in the likeness of the seed of Abraham, in the likeness of an Hebrew man. Does that Mean that God was no longer outside of time? No it doesnt, because God is omnipresent ...


Just like a stream flowing into a lake. He(God) is the water which is flowing from outside(father) the lake(creation), and the water which did flow inside(son) the lake(the son).

The father is the dreamer, he has a dream of the universe of universes and he is in the dream himself as a part of the dream and this is the son. We are the dream, we are what he is dreaming of, and everything he dreams of becomes real because he is among us in the dream.

God is the dreamer and he is within the dream and without the dream. We are the dream and we are not without the dreamer. The dreamer is in us and we are within him yet he is without us. And Jesus is the dreamer within, and the father is the dreamer without.

God had a dream that he became a man and died for the world of his dreams. And the world was made real and became one with the dreamer.


Of course these are mere abstractions which I have found to be useful in understanding the nature of God in relation to his creation. We see in creation an image of God, and how he relates to us. This is the darkened glass(mirror/image) through which we see God. One day we will see face to face knowing even as we are known. That is when we will be truly be at one with God, and God all in all, even as he is now in the lord Jesus Christ, and as Christ is in us.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 12-18-2009 at 03:26 PM..
 
Old 12-18-2009, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,430 posts, read 7,758,861 times
Reputation: 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
If God can become a whirlwind, or a cloud of fire and smoke ... God can and did become a man and did dwell among us.
It seems reasonable, however the OT states:

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

Apparently there are some things that God cannot do because it is against his nature. Sinning, changing his mind, being a son of man... these are things he cannot do according to the OT...

So rather than limiting God.. what we are saying is that if God cannot be killed because he is eternal then the death on the cross was not like a human death on the cross. There was no interruption in consciousness for God. If God cannot sin.. how is it that he (Jesus) was tempted as we are... God being sinless is not terribly hard to believe.

So if you kill the body in which God dwells (assuming Jesus is God in the flesh) then that is not the same thing a purely human would experience. We would be dead, an interruption in our consciousness.

God dies in the flesh ---> nothing happens.. God is still unchanged.
Human dies in the flesh ---> human is dead.

See the difference that Christy is trying to point out to you?
 
Old 12-18-2009, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,430 posts, read 7,758,861 times
Reputation: 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
That's right. I didn't reply to C.Girl earlier as I just assumed she knew. Jesus was 100% man - He was/is also 100% God.

He died on a cross for us. The sacrifice was made on the cross at Calvary. He was crucified, because of our sins.

Recognize Him now, or recognize Him later. He is God, and Lord of all.
If only the human part of God died why is it that Jesus doesn't return to being God? We see in revelation that he is sitting NEXT to God and is still distinct.

What did the corruptible body of Christ change to if God is unchanging?
 
Old 12-18-2009, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 4,944,220 times
Reputation: 420
OT Concealed
NT Revealed
 
Old 12-18-2009, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,430 posts, read 7,758,861 times
Reputation: 1678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
That is when we will be truly be at one with God, and God all in all, even as he is now in the lord Jesus Christ, and as Christ is in us.

I have never read a verse in the bible that states Christ is in us.. could you point out the verse?

I see we can be "in Christ" and God can be in us but never Christ in us...

Thanks
 
Old 12-18-2009, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,313 posts, read 1,249,500 times
Reputation: 456
Cool Just my humble opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks
You can't be Christian, unless you really believe in His deity, that is what separates Christianity from all the other religions that acknowledge His prophetic nature....like Islam and Judaism, they recognize Jesus, even agree with some or most of His teachings, but they don't regard Him as Deity. This is where the line is drawn. Just like the JW, are not a part of the church, the Christian church, whether they think they are or not, they aren't. Believing in His divinity is what makes us "Christians".

I have seen this remark made on several threads...that one has to believe Jesus is GOD to be a Christian.

I would like anyone to please provide just one scripture that says I, or anyone else for that matter, has to believe Jesus is God in order to be considered a Christian (Christ Follower).....just one.
Just starting at the beginning of the thread, and not reading the pages of replies so my answer has probably been said....I don't know.
But, I don't think you'll find a scripture that will tell you to be a follower of Christ. Jesus was all about bringing one to the Father. Jesus was very much against established religion.
Now, several churches will have their 'mission statement' or doctrine posted that will list about a dozen things that you should fit into in order to be considered one of their fold. Invariably one of those things will be accepting the fact of the Trinity.
This comes from John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The "Word" being Jesus Christ.
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