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Beloved, to share a few for you to begin your study: Exod 3:14; 6:3 compared to Jn 8:58 and Acts 7:32. Compare Isa 44:6 to Rev 1:7 for Jesus and God calling themselves the same again; Also Mt 22:32; Mk 12:26 along with 1 Pet 1:16. Also look at the compartive of Rev 1:8 to Rev 22:3 where Jesus and the Lord God called themselves by the same attitrubutes which came from I AM. Is it not obvious that both are God, and both have the same spirit, soul and attitributes, yet different in their functions within the Godhead? I hope and pray your quest for the truth about God and Jesus finds you rejoicing in the revelation that as God, both Jesus and the Father seek all who would come to them (Jn 6:38-40) in Spirit and Truth.
Take a look at the first one: Exodus 3:13-16
YLT 13 And Moses saith unto God, 'Lo, I am coming unto the sons of Israel, and have said to them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you, and they have said to me, What is His name? what do I say unto them?' 14 And God saith unto Moses, 'I AM THAT WHICH I AM;' He saith also, 'Thus dost thou say to the sons of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.' 15 And God saith again unto Moses, 'Thus dost thou say unto the sons of Israel, Jehovah, God of your fathers, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My name -- to the age, and this My memorial, to generation -- generation. 16 'Go, and thou hast gathered the elders of Israel, and hast said unto them: Jehovah, God of your fathers, hath appeareth unto me, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, I have certainly inspected you, and that which is done to you in Egypt;
NIV 13Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”
14God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
15God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.
16“Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—appeared to me and said: I have watched over you and have seen what has been done to you in Egypt.
The name of God is THE LORD - יְהֹוָה Yhvh, Strong's #3068, Jehovah, Yahweh, The proper name of the God of Israel.
The proper name of God is not I am who I am nor I am. The proper name of God is Jehovah or Yhvh. Some Jews refuse to say the proper name of God and instead say HaShem, The Name. They believe it is sacred and powerful. So out of respect for their creator they say HaShem which to them is like calling God Dad or Father.
Quote:
"HaShem" - (both and neither masculine nor feminine and absolutely no plural); the word means, literally, "The Name," and it is the way that Jews refer to G-d when not in a Prayer or Torah Reading or Torah citation context. The reason is that the Torah forbids us from pronouncing the four-letter Name of HaShem in other than ritual contexts, and even then using only certain Names (other than the four-letter one, known as the Tetragrammaton) that embody characteristics, such as A-donai, E-l, E-lohim.
So when you say that Jesus referring to himself as "I AM" really means he was saying he is God. I think I have shown that saying "I AM" would not have meant that to the Jews at that time. Instead it is more appropriate that Jesus was stating that before Abraham he was the plan to come. He is the Messiah, not God.
. Is it not obvious that both are God, and both have the same spirit, soul and attitributes, yet different in their functions within the Godhead? .
Beloved, God the Father is spirit. He is not a soul like created beings. A soul can perish. A soul can die. God cannot die. He cannot perish.
Jesus died,he had a soul. The Father is not a soul.
And your hubby is absolutely correct and I agree with him wholeheartedly!!! Jesus is not God. Salvation is from God and Jesus is the Savior God provided for all of us....he is the firstborn of all of us. We can all achieve the same ONENESS with God just as Jesus did by following in his footsteps....He showed us The Way, now all we have to do is follow him. Deny ourselves, pick up our cross and FOLLOW IN HIS FOOTSTEPS!
There are those on this forum who contend that because Jesus and God are ONE...that means they are one and the same person, when this is absolutely NOT what the scripture is saying. They are ONE in mind, will and spirit...not one and the same person. Jesus was a REPRESENTATION to us of God, he showed us who God truly is and showed us that our carnal conceptions of God from the past were wrong.
There are many scriptures that state we are to be ONE with God...if we accomplish this, will we then be God too? Of course not....we will just have the same mind, will and spirit as Jesus did. Folks....this is what we are called to do....to be ONE with God and Jesus....be of the same mind as Christ by following in his footsteps. We are to be conformed to his image so that we can become ONE with God...THIS IS WHAT BEING IN CHRIST IS ALL ABOUT. Why is it that so many miss this very important point???
Christygirl. You misunderstood what my husband said in his previous post. Jesus is God but Jesus is God manifested to us in a way that we can understand and relate to the Father. God became flesh and dwelt amongst us. He became a man so he could die for us. I am not sure how you misunderstood his post but you did... go back and re-read it.
Beloved, God the Father is spirit. He is not a soul like created beings. A soul can perish. A soul can die. God cannot die. He cannot perish.
Jesus died,he had a soul. The Father is not a soul.
If the Father is not a soul or does not have a soul than please explain Matthew 12:18 "Behold my servant, who have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased; I will put my spirit upon Him, and He shall show judgement to the Gentiles".
Beloved,
Do you believe the scripture when it says "For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, nevertheless for US there is ONE God, the FATHER, out of Whom ALLIS, and we for Him, and ONELORD, JESUS CHRIST, through Whom all is, and we through Him" (I Cor. 8:5-6).
How many Gods?
Who is that one God?
How many Lords?
Who is that Lord?
For there is ONE God, and ONE Mediator OF God and mankind, a MAN Christ Jesus..." (I Tim. 2:5). How many Gods? Who is the mediator OF GOD?
Eph. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"
Who is God the Father of?
Beloved,
Excellent questions, and excellent material to further sustain that Jesus IS God. For within all these you have shown indeed an illustration of the supreme loving act of submission within the Godhead. For indeed there is ONE GOD (Spirit), from whom God the Father is head, and God the Son is submissive to and points to the Father, and God the Holy Spirit who is submissive to and points to the work of the Son. There is only ONE GOD in the headship whom Jesus and the Spirit, being of the FULLNESS of God are in submission to, and that is the Father. All are God (Spirit), but all are seperate in their functions of the Godhead. These have nothing to do with power or diety, for they all have such, but rather of submission and function, and loving obedience to the will and plan of GOD Himself, being expressed from the Father, extended through the Son, and energized in the Spirit to all mankind. So indeed I do believe in the scriptures you shared, for they all prove that God is One, and Jesus and The Spirit are God in their Spirit, Diety, Holiness and Will, and all are Directed and lead by God the Father to the glory of GOD! Amen and amen!
Beloved,
Excellent questions, and excellent material to further sustain that Jesus IS God. For within all these you have shown indeed an illustration of the supreme loving act of submission within the Godhead. For indeed there is ONE GOD (Spirit), from whom God the Father is head, and God the Son is submissive to and points to the Father, and God the Holy Spirit who is submissive to and points to the work of the Son. There is only ONE GOD in the headship whom Jesus and the Spirit, being of the FULLNESS of God are in submission to, and that is the Father. All are God (Spirit), but all are seperate in their functions of the Godhead. These have nothing to do with power or diety, for they all have such, but rather of submission and function, and loving obedience to the will and plan of GOD Himself, being expressed from the Father, extended through the Son, and energized in the Spirit to all mankind. So indeed I do believe in the scriptures you shared, for they all prove that God is One, and Jesus and The Spirit are God in their Spirit, Diety, Holiness and Will, and all are Directed and lead by God the Father to the glory of GOD! Amen and amen!
Beloved,
These do indeed have to do with the power of deity, because Jesus can do nothing without the Father. However the Father can do all things in and of himself.The Holy Spirit is God the Father. The scripture say God is spirit. So you see how the Holy spirit is indeed the same as the Father.
Yes Jesus is submissive to the Father just like I know we all will be one day. But that does not make us the Father. In that sense I guess you could say that one day we will all be members of the Godhead. We will all be members of God`s family. We will all be sons and daughters of the most high. We are brothers and sisters in Christ. But again,that does not make us the Father and that does not give us equal power with God the Father himself. keep studying and praying to show yourself approved and you will see that we are all sons and daughters and a part of God`s family, and will one day be one with God the Father just like Jesus. In that time,the consummation of the ages, his plan for the ages will be complete. His plan for creation will reach it`s conclusion. God will be all in all. Isn`t it glorious? Hallelujah and praise his Holy name!
[quote=katjonjj;12088829]Take a look at the first one: Exodus 3:13-16
YLT 13 And Moses saith unto God, 'Lo, I am coming unto the sons of Israel, and have said to them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you, and they have said to me, What is His name? what do I say unto them?' 14 And God saith unto Moses, 'I AM THAT WHICH I AM;' He saith also, 'Thus dost thou say to the sons of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.' 15 And God saith again unto Moses, 'Thus dost thou say unto the sons of Israel, Jehovah, God of your fathers, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My name -- to the age, and this My memorial, to generation -- generation. 16 'Go, and thou hast gathered the elders of Israel, and hast said unto them: Jehovah, God of your fathers, hath appeareth unto me, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, I have certainly inspected you, and that which is done to you in Egypt;
NIV 13Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”
14God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
15God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.
16“Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—appeared to me and said: I have watched over you and have seen what has been done to you in Egypt.
The name of God is THE LORD - יְהֹוָה Yhvh, Strong's #3068, Jehovah, Yahweh, The proper name of the God of Israel.
The proper name of God is not I am who I am nor I am. The proper name of God is Jehovah or Yhvh. Some Jews refuse to say the proper name of God and instead say HaShem, The Name. They believe it is sacred and powerful. So out of respect for their creator they say HaShem which to them is like calling God Dad or Father.
So when you say that Jesus referring to himself as "I AM" really means he was saying he is God. I think I have shown that saying "I AM" would not have meant that to the Jews at that time. Instead it is more appropriate that Jesus was stating that before Abraham he was the plan to come. He is the Messiah, not God.[/(quote]
Beloved,
An excellent study of the Hebrew linguistics and context of the Old Testament, and one which you have proudly presented; however,I did not say "I AM" is the proper name, but instead I shared it was the Name God and Jesus declared alike, and like the Jews of John Chapter 8, these whom Jesus spoke to, Jesus was not speaking in context of a Jewish perspective, but that of the Father (vs 28), speaking to a generation who were dead in their sins because they could not hear the Father through Jesus (Jn 8:23-27); thus they understood not when Jesus said to their question "Who art thou?" "And Jesus said unto them even that I said unto you from the beginning"(literal greek) (vs 25)... thus because of the hardness of their heart they could not understand that the "I am" of verse 24 was the one and same that Moses spoke of in Exodus.
Beloved,
These do indeed have to do with the power of deity, because Jesus can do nothing without the Father. However the Father can do all things in and of himself.The Holy Spirit is God the Father. The scripture say God is spirit. So you see how the Holy spirit is indeed the same as the Father.
Yes Jesus is submissive to the Father just like I know we all will be one day. But that does not make us the Father. In that sense I guess you could say that one day we will all be members of the Godhead. We will all be members of God`s family. We will all be sons and daughters of the most high. We are brothers and sisters in Christ. But again,that does not make us the Father and that does not give us equal power with God the Father himself. keep studying and praying to show yourself approved and you will see that we are all sons and daughters and a part of God`s family, and will one day be one with God the Father just like Jesus. In that time,the consummation of the ages, his plan for the ages will be complete. His plan for creation will reach it`s conclusion. God will be all in all. Isn`t it glorious? Hallelujah and praise his Holy name!
Beloved of the Lord,
I agree with you whole heartedly that we will never be like the Father, for He alone is the omnipotant, and to Him all glory and honor is His and His alone, and every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord at the consumation of the ages. And, as the Son, we are filled up to all the FULLNESS of GOD through the power of the Spirit as we walk in agape Love in the obedience of our wills to the will of the Father (Eph 3:14-21 cf Jn 4:34; 5:19,30; 6:38; 8:28,29;12:49;14:10). In that way we will be Christ-like.. in that way we will "Be Ye Holy in all your behavior, for I am Holy"; but not until the Son returns to transform us into His total likeness will we be fully free from all sin. Hallelujah and praise and glory to the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world for our sins! Thank you for sharing your insights and thoughts brother!
For all of us, these discussions should always conclude in growth and praise for the teaching of the Spirit in our hearts; for each of us with unveiled face we behold as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. Until then, we all should be mindful of our brothers and not cause them to stumble, for that will be our shame, not theirs (principle of walking in love - Rom 14:1,13,19 cf 1 Tim 1:5)
Last edited by Hot Heart For God; 12-18-2009 at 10:18 PM..
Reason: mis-spelled
Oh the foolishness, the ignorance and the arrogance, and the blaspheme of those who in their self proclaimed wisdom, would dispute and contradict the revealed truth of the Word of the eternal and infinite God Who has made His triune nature clear for all to see.
What hatred of and for the truth possesses those who deny the Deity of Christ when passage after passage reveals Him to be Almighty GOD, co-equal, and co-eternal with both God the Father and with God the Holy Spirit.
He is revealed as God in John 1:1 ''In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God [kai Theos En ho logos].2) He was in the beginning with God. 3) All things came into being by Him (Jesus Christ), and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4) In Him was life, and the life was the light of men, 5) And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. (Oh the depth of the darkness of those who do not comprehend that Jesus Christ is God.)
Then there's Phillippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, 6) Who, being in the form of God [hos en morphe Theou huparchon-being inherently 'in the form of God'], thought it not robbery to be equal with God. 7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men; 8) And, being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
C.I. Scofield writes;
Phil.(2:6) This is one of the strongest assertions in the N.T. of the Deity of Jesus Christ. The form (Gk, morphe) is the external appearance by which a person or thing strikes the vision; yet it is an external form truly indicative of the inner nature from which it springs. Nothing in this passage teaches that the eternal Word (Jn. 1:1) emptied Himself of either His divine nature or His attributes, but only of the outward and visible manifestation of the Godhead. God may change form, but He cannot cease to be God. At all times His divine attributes could be exercised according to His will. See notes at Jn.1:1 and 20:28.
John (1:1) Greek Logos (Aram. Memra, used as a designation of God in the Targums, i.e. Aramaic translations of the O.T.). The Greek word means, (1) a thought or concept; and (2) the expression or utterance of that thought. As a designation of Christ, therefore, Logos is peculiarly felicitous because (1) in Him are embodied all the treasures of the divine wisdom, the collective thought of God (1 Cor.1:24; Eph. 3:10-11; Col. 2:2-3); and (2) He is, from eternity, but especially in His incarnation, the utterance or expression of the Person and thought of Deity (Jn.1:3-5,9,14-18; 14:9-11; Col. 2:9). In the Being, Person, and work of Christ, Deity is expressed.
John (20:28) The Deity of Jesus Christ is declared in Scripture: (1) The O.T. both intmates and explicitly predicts His Deity. (a) The theophanies intimate the appearance of God in human form, and His ministry thus to man (Gen.16:7-14; 18:2-23, especially v. 17; cp. 32:28 with Hos. 12:3-5; Ex. 3:2-14) (b) The Messiah is expressly declared to be the Son of God (Ps. 2:2-9), and God (cp, Ps. 45:6-7 with Heb. 1:8-9; Ps. 110:1 with Mt. 22:44; Acts 2:34 and Heb. 1:13; Ps.110:4 with Heb. 5:6; 6:20; 7:17-21; Zech. 6:13). (c) His virgin birth was foretold as the means through which God could be Immanuel, God with us (cp. Isa.7:13-14 with Mt. 1:22-23). (d) The Messiah is expressly invested with the divine names (Isa. 9:6-7). (e) In a prophecy of His death He is called the LORD'S ''fellow'' (cp. Zech. 13:7 with Mt. 26:31). And (f) His eternal Being is declared (cp. Mic. 5:2 with Mt. 2:6; Jn. 7:42).
(2) Christ Himself affirmed His Deity. (a) He applied to Himself the Jehovistic I AM. (The pronoun ''he'' is not in the Greek; cp. Jn. 8:24, 56-58. The Jews correctly understood this to be the Lord's claim to full Deity [V.59]. See Jn. 10:33; 18:4-6, where, also, ''he'' is not in the Greek text). (b) He claimed to be the Adonai of the O.T, (Mt. 22:42-45. See Gen. 15:2, note). (c) He asserted His identity with the Father (Mt. 28:19; Mk. 14:62; Jn. 10:30. That the Jews so understood Him is shown by Jn.31-33; 14:8-9; 17:5). (d) He exercised the chief prerogative of God--the forgiveness of sins (Mk.2:5-7; Lk. 7:48-50). (e) He asserted omnipresence (Mk. 18:20; Jn. 3:13); omniscience (Jn. 11:11-14, when Jesus was fifty miles away; Mk. 11:6-8); omnipotence (Mt. 28:18; Lk. 7:14; Jn. 5:21-23; 6:19); mastery over nature,and creative power (Lk.9:16-17; Jn. 2:9; 10:28). And (f) He received and approved human worship of Himself (Mt. 14:33; 28:9; Jn. 20:28-29).
(4) The N.T. writers ascribe divine perfections and attributes to Christ (Mt. 11:28; 18:20; 28:20; Jn. 1:2; 2:23-25; 3:13; 5:17; 21:17; Heb. 1:3, 11-12 with Heb. 13:8; Rev.1:8,17-18; 11:17; 22:13).
(5) The N.T. writers ascribe divine works to Christ (Jn. 1:3,10; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:3).
(6) The N.T. writers teach that supreme worship should be paid to Christ (Acts 7:59-60; 1 Cor.1:2; 2 Cor. 13-14; Phil.2:9-11; Heb. 1:6; Rev. 1:5-6; 5:12-13).
(7) The holiness and resurrection of Christ confirm His Deity (Jn. 8:46; Rom. 1:4).
(New Scofield Reference Bible, footnotes for Phil. 2:6, John 1:1, and John 20:28; p.1281,1123,1157.)
And yet in light of all of this, and while professing to know God, there are those who go to extraordinary, yet futile lengths in an attempt to disprove the Deity of He who created the universe. I say this. They do not know God.
dont you believe in the trinity?god came to the earth as man.jesus.jesus left as the holy ghost.they are the same 3 in 1.you CANNOT have one w/out the other.So yes ,you have to believe in God to accept,believe in Jesus as your savior. Read your bible.
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