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Old 12-15-2009, 01:42 PM
 
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The prophecy of the new heavens and earth in Isaiah stands in utter contradiction to the prophecy concerning it is 2 peter. Let us look at them ...

2 Peter 3:7-15
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition(apōleia - destruction) of ungodly men.But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


In this prophecy we are told that the new havens and earth will follow the fiery destruction of the current heaven and earth we live in, and that all evil people will be destroyed so that only the righteous will dwell in the new heavens and earth ...


Isaiah 65:17-20

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.




In Isaiah's prophecy we see that someone who is an hundred years old will be considered a child, but that sin and death will still exist. Also anyone who dies at the age of an hundred years old will be considered accursed, and absolutely nothing is mentioned about the old heavens and earth being destroyed by fire.




Interesting and very strange ...
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:12 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 3,995,463 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
The prophecy of the new heavens and earth in Isaiah stands in utter contradiction to the prophecy concerning it is 2 peter. Let us look at them ...

2 Peter 3:7-15
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition(apōleia - destruction) of ungodly men.But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


In this prophecy we are told that the new havens and earth will follow the fiery destruction of the current heaven and earth we live in, and that all evil people will be destroyed so that only the righteous will dwell in the new heavens and earth ...


Isaiah 65:17-20

For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.




In Isaiah's prophecy we see that someone who is an hundred years old will be considered a child, but that sin and death will still exist. Also anyone who dies at the age of an hundred years old will be considered accursed, and absolutely nothing is mentioned about the old heavens and earth being destroyed by fire.




Interesting and very strange ...
Only strange to those who do not study to show themselves approved unto God, workmen that need not to be ashamed.
The shame of equating the two as the same is in the ignorance of not being aware of what the Word teaches throughout, as a whole, by laying Scripture side by side for comparison and for context.
Isaiah 65 speaks of the end of this age and the new age of the Millennium. People marry, have children, and populate the earth, while Jesus Christ is ruling on earth for the thousand year Sabbath of it after cleansing the earth of all things that offend at His return after the seven year tribulation.

Only sinners will die in the millennium, not the righteous, for there will never be another death of a righteous, justified believer in the millennial reign, but only of the ones who choose to live in iniquity. Babies will not die, and the sinner will die at a hundred [if not executed before], for wickedness.

The "blessed of YHWH" who are judged worthy to live at the return of Jesus Christ [Sheep Gentiles and the righteous of Israel] enter into the millennial reign, which is the "kingdom prepared" for the righteous from the beginning of creation; and they enter into it their earth flesh bodies, untranslated, to populate the earth, and they do not die, but fulfill the life ordained from the beginning [ before translation to the immortal body for the glory] which Adam would have done, also, if he had not got kicked out of Eden.
The millennial saints will eat of the tree of life, marry, have babies, and serve the LORD on earth for one thousand years of a Sabbath of Rest for earth, which is to be a most glorious new age, and the last age, before the regeneration and final judgment of all the wicked.
Living our lives watching and praying insures that we will miss that final judgment at the end of the millennial Day, when the heavens and earth's elements will be disolved and regenerated, no matter if we depart our bodies next breath to wait for the rapture of the Church, or are raptured next breath. The Word insures us that we will not have a part in the last resurrection of death or in the judgment before the throne of God in that end of this present creation if we live godly sober lives, knowing the end of all things is coming, as the Word states.
Peter also states that the world before the flood is not the world of this age, just as the world after the tribulation and removal of all things that offend from this world will not be the same world.
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
This present world will pass away, and the new world order ordained by God will come, which is the Sabbath Rest of one thousand years. It will be glorious, but it will not be the beginning of the 8th day, which is the New Creation to come, after this present creation will be dissolved in its elements.
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:30 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 6,706,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
Only strange to those who do not study to show themselves approved unto God, workmen that need not to be ashamed.
The shame of equating the two as the same is in the ignorance of not being aware of what the Word teaches throughout, as a whole, by laying Scripture side by side for comparison and for context.
Isaiah 65 speaks of the end of this age and the new age of the Millennium. People marry, have children, and populate the earth, while Jesus Christ is ruling on earth for the thousand year Sabbath of it after cleansing the earth of all things that offend at His return after the seven year tribulation.

Only sinners will die in the millennium, not the righteous, for there will never be another death of a righteous, justified believer in the millennial reign, but only of the ones who choose to live in iniquity. Babies will not die, and the sinner will die at a hundred [if not executed before], for wickedness.

The "blessed of YHWH" who are judged worthy to live at the return of Jesus Christ [Sheep Gentiles and the righteous of Israel] enter into the millennial reign, which is the "kingdom prepared" for the righteous from the beginning of creation; and they enter into it their earth flesh bodies, untranslated, to populate the earth, and they do not die, but fulfill the life ordained from the beginning [ before translation to the immortal body for the glory] which Adam would have done, also, if he had not got kicked out of Eden.
The millennial saints will eat of the tree of life, marry, have babies, and serve the LORD on earth for one thousand years of a Sabbath of Rest for earth, which is to be a most glorious new age, and the last age, before the regeneration and final judgment of all the wicked.
Living our lives watching and praying insures that we will miss that final judgment at the end of the millennial Day, when the heavens and earth's elements will be disolved and regenerated, no matter if we depart our bodies next breath to wait for the rapture of the Church, or are raptured next breath. The Word insures us that we will not have a part in the last resurrection of death or in the judgment before the throne of God in that end of this present creation if we live godly sober lives, knowing the end of all things is coming, as the Word states.
I agree with this interpretation. It has to do with the fact that the old testament writers did not prophecy in chronological order, but in topical order. The day of the lord or millennial reign was understood by them to be a part of the new heavens and earth. A sort of prelude of what is to come after ...

That is the case also in ...

Isa 66:22-24
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


Verse 24 seems to contradict what we are told in Isa 25:8, Isaiah 65 and in Rev 7:17 & Rev 21:4 ...


If God is to wipe away all tears and cause all to forget the things that have been, then how could there be a valley of carcasses rotting for ever in the new earth? The fact is that the old testament writers didn't foresee the time of the gentiles otherwise known as the church age. And they believed that the reign of Christ on earth would start right after his resurrection. So the valley of the dead which shall be an abhorrence to all nations already occurred in 70 AD, and will occur again after the battle of Armageddon at the beginning of the day of the lord or the millennial reign of Christ, and not after the recreation of the heavens.


It is difficult to understand this and requires proper exegesis.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 12-15-2009 at 04:37 PM..
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Old 12-16-2009, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Isaiah 65:20 affirms that over the whole of life from infancy to old age, the power of death will be destroyed in Christ....sin and death defeated
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:57 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 6,706,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Isaiah 65:20 affirms that over the whole of life from infancy to old age, the power of death will be destroyed in Christ....sin and death defeated

Ah the preterist spin.

It certainly says something different as far as i understand it. Let us look at some other translations than the KJV ...

New International Version (1984)
"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

New American Standard Bible (1995)
"No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed.

American Standard Version
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days; for the child shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner being a hundred years old shall be accursed.

Darby Bible Translation
There shall be no more thenceforth an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not completed his days; for the youth shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner being a hundred years old shall be accursed.

Yeah some slight variations between translations but they all obviously make the same point. That dying at the age of one hundred will be considered a curse, and someone the age of an hundred years will be considered a youth. I know you will say that is not what it actually means, but that is preterism for ya ... The only part of prophecy in the bible that actually means what it says concerning the last days is that it would be soon in times of Christ therefore no other interpretation is possible even though the hyper preterists argument has to completely turn most prophecies on their head to justify their interpretation.


Yeah i look forward to the coming of the lord, and no one will ever convince me to do otherwise. Just like no one will ever convince me that God is a misanthropic fascist who cannot or will not redeem his entire creation and just like no one will ever convince that Jesus is not God.
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:19 PM
 
2,531 posts, read 1,763,127 times
Reputation: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
The prophecy of the new heavens and earth in Isaiah stands in utter contradiction to the prophecy concerning it is 2 peter. Let us look at them ...

2 Peter 3:7-15
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition(apōleia - destruction) of ungodly men.But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


In this prophecy we are told that the new havens and earth will follow the fiery destruction of the current heaven and earth we live in, and that all evil people will be destroyed so that only the righteous will dwell in the new heavens and earth ...


Isaiah 65:17-20
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.




In Isaiah's prophecy we see that someone who is an hundred years old will be considered a child, but that sin and death will still exist. Also anyone who dies at the age of an hundred years old will be considered accursed, and absolutely nothing is mentioned about the old heavens and earth being destroyed by fire.




Interesting and very strange ...


Because it is a new earth, then obviously the old earth is gone at that time as Peter shows. The believers who live now will rule at that time in the spiritual realm to add the people in the new earth, like the Angels who rule in the spiritual realm now in this present earth. It appears that a new people will be created to inhabit the new earth with no Devil for a thousand years. I believe that God has given us insight into the fact that people will sin even when there is no Devil to tempt. I believe it is mentioned to stop the gainsayers from saying, if only there where no Devil things would be just perfect. Why else would God even mention it for us to read in the book of Revelations, but to show us this truth. It appears that there will be a lot more righteousness in the new creation then now but will spiral down hill sooner or later because man will always have free will. In the beginning of this earth, man lived a lot longer because there was less sin and God could tolerate it until things got out of hand and violence filled the earth to the point that no one could live in peace. Hence the flood and somewhat of a renewal and a fresh start for mankind. But look at the earth now and so I say it won't be long before He will have to start again. Why again? Because God is love and desires to fellowship with His creation and being the creater, He cannot but create. Those who appose will after much patience be gotten rid of in order to protect those who want love to rule, even as you would want your children to live in peace and love. Now, as a side note consider this, that in various parts of the earth geologists have found huge deposits of amber[millions of pounds in various spots] that come from trees and contain air bubbles with oxygen levels much higher, 20% then at present. It is apparent that huge amounts of trees were congregated in one spot or above, as I believe, on the waters of the flood, chaffed against one another and left this amber. And consider also that limestone does not naturally occur on land but nevertheless is on the land and it is full of fish fossils. Limestone is the product of the oceans. Why is this sedimentary rock found all over the earth now?

Last edited by garya123; 03-15-2011 at 12:24 AM..
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