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Old 07-04-2012, 01:57 AM
 
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People who mention that scripture doesn't mean anything because this guy was cast by man and this guy was cast by God. What you forget is that Peter was given the KEYS TO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. Therefore, he had the Jesus given Authority to decide who that replacement 12 Apostle was going to be. If Matthias was elected, then with Peter's Authority, Matthias is the 12 Apostle and your opinion is moot.
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Meaning?....
Jesus told the 12 Apostles who had followed Him,
that When The Son 0f Man Sat 0n The Throne 0f His Glory
they would Sit on 12 Thrones Judging The 12 Tribes 0f Israel. - Matt.19:28
This has not happed yet.

But will happen in The Davidic Kingdom on earth when Christ comes back as
The King of kings and The Lord of lords. - Rev.19

Then John saw THRONES and They That SAT on Them and JUDGMENT Was Committed To Them.-Rev.20

Rev.14:4 - The 144,000 0f All The Tribes 0f Israel who follow The Lamb where ever He goes will be of
The Davidic Kingdom on earth which The 12 Apostes 0f The Lamb will be the Judges over in His Kingdom. Starting in the 1,000 yrs.

Paul finished his ministry. But not The 12 Apostles 0f The Lamb....
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamakin View Post
The verse doesn't really say taht they were chosen by Jesus, just that they are the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
The Lamb was Jesus.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodToBeHome View Post
People who mention that scripture doesn't mean anything because this guy was cast by man and this guy was cast by God. What you forget is that Peter was given the KEYS TO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. Therefore, he had the Jesus given Authority to decide who that replacement 12 Apostle was going to be. If Matthias was elected, then with Peter's Authority, Matthias is the 12 Apostle and your opinion is moot.
I agree that Peter had the authority to suggest and with the 11 decide on a replacement for Judas. And we may consider that the Holy Spirit through the disciples made the desicion but this is just our assumption. Jesus choose Judas and he had a chance to replace Judas when he sent him away to betray him. He chose not to. Your opinion is unfounded. Jesus's chose of the 12 remains as the only 12 we can be certain are the apsotle of the lamb.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:23 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
The Book of Revelation describes a new heaven and a new earth, and a (new) Jerusalem. The wall of the city has 12 foundations, with the names of the 12 Apostles written on them. We pretty much know what the names of eleven of them are, but who's name is written on the 12th? Is it Judas Iscariot????? Or Matthias (who replaced Judas) ?????

(See Rev 12:10-14, and Acts 1:15-26) Wouldn't Matthias be considered the 13th apostle, therefore not one of the original 12? On the other hand, considering what Judas did, how can his name be judged worthy to be written on a foundation stone in heaven???

Your thoughts?


Bud
Maybe it was a contrivance between Yeshua and Judas for him to do what he did out of neccessity...
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:48 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
I would imagine it would be Paul as the 12th....keep in mind the other was elected by lot and not by God.
Lots were a common form of choosing...They asked HaShem to let the lot fall to whom HaShem chose as Judas' replacement...Paul on the other hand 'Proclaimed' himself an Apostle...I believe it was Peter himself who stated that he himself was Aposte to the Nations so how could Pau make that same claim in an air of exclusiveness?...

Act 15:7 And much disputation having occurred, rising up Peter said to them: Men, brothers, you recognize that from ancient days, God chose among us that through my mouth the nations should hear the Word of the gospel, and to believe.

I wonder how the Gospel would look if we excluded Paul's letters (Except for Hebrews, which is in a different style than Pauls noted letters, and so it is said that someone else wrote it) and trained our mind on the others?...I would submit that the letters of the NT should be viewed with the Light of the OT so if anything in the NT contradicts anything inthe OT there is a good chance that it is a false doctrine that we see in the NT...Just because a group of religious men read the letters and decided on their own efforts what should be a part of the cannon does not mean that they chose wisely...
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:59 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notanexpert View Post
I agree that Peter had the authority to suggest and with the 11 decide on a replacement for Judas. And we may consider that the Holy Spirit through the disciples made the desicion but this is just our assumption. Jesus choose Judas and he had a chance to replace Judas when he sent him away to betray him. He chose not to. Your opinion is unfounded. Jesus's chose of the 12 remains as the only 12 we can be certain are the apsotle of the lamb.
Act 1:13 And when they went in, they went up to the upper room where they were waiting: both Peter and James, and John and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alpheus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the brother of James.
Act 1:14 These all were continuing steadfastly in prayer and in supplication with one mind, with the women, and with Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
Act 1:15 And in these days, standing up in the middle of the disciples, (and the number of names together being about a hundred and twenty), Peter said,
Act 1:16 Men, brothers, it was necessary for this Scripture to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke before through David's mouth concerning Judas, the one having become guide to those seizing Jesus;
Act 1:17 for he was numbered with us, and obtained a portion of this ministry.
Act 1:18 Indeed, then, this one bought a field out of the reward of unrighteousness; and falling headlong, he burst in the middle, and poured out all his bowels.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all those living in Jerusalem, so as that field to be called in their own dialect, Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.
Act 1:20 For it has been written in the scroll of Psalms, Let his estate become forsaken, and he not be living in it. And, "Let another take his overseership." LXX-Psa. 68:26; Psa. 108:8; MT-Psa. 69:25; Psa. 109:8
Act 1:21 Therefore, it is right that men being together with us all the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us,
Act 1:22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when He was taken from us, one of these to become a witness of His resurrection with us.
Act 1:23 And they set out two: Joseph, he being called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
Act 1:24 And having prayed, they said, You, Lord, knower of all hearts, show which one You chose from these two,

NOTE: Notice that it uses the past tense of 'choose', above, Peter says from ancient days that he was chosen to be an apostle to the Nations, so, I wonder, if, by using the past tense here they were alluding, also, that HaShem had, from ancient days, already chosen Judas' replacement?....

Act 1:25 to take the share of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas fell, to go to his own place.
Act 1:26 And they gave their lots. And the lot fell on Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.


According to this it was not men but, HaShem that chose Matthias...Paul on the other hand made claim to being chosen by Yeshua on the road to Demascus and Apostleship...And I wonder if there is something to be heeded in the warning regarding a Benjamite Wolf, for not only Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin but Saul also was of that tribe and we see what he attempted to do to David...I wonder if there is a correllation between the two events?...

Last edited by Richard1965; 07-18-2012 at 10:06 AM.. Reason: After thought...
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:08 AM
 
Location: US
10,686 posts, read 4,149,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodToBeHome View Post
People who mention that scripture doesn't mean anything because this guy was cast by man and this guy was cast by God. What you forget is that Peter was given the KEYS TO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. Therefore, he had the Jesus given Authority to decide who that replacement 12 Apostle was going to be. If Matthias was elected, then with Peter's Authority, Matthias is the 12 Apostle and your opinion is moot.
14 Apostles...Hmmm...What about the 15th?...You know...The one named Clarence?...
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Alabama
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The 12 includes Matthis as we see in Acts 6:2

So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, “It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables.

Look at where Paul places himself. After the 12.

1COR15
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

So the Apostles to the Jews, the 12 which includes Judas' replacement of Matthis will have their names "Revelation 21:14
The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Here you are seeing the fulfillment of the Kingdom promised to the Jews. Not the Gentiles who are in Heaven when the Kingdom period resumes.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:55 AM
 
2,278 posts, read 924,038 times
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"But now they desired a better that is, A HEAVENLY Country.
Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God
for He has prepared A City (new Jerusalem) for them." - Heb.11:15,16

"For here we have no Continuing City,
But we seek The One To Come (new jerusalem)." - Heb.13:14
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