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Old 12-15-2009, 05:47 PM
 
16 posts, read 23,508 times
Reputation: 11

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As an atheist I have mocked Christians for having holes in their testimony and not making a solid case for a God whom they claim is perfect. Finally someone has made a solid case for the posibility of who Jesus was and if he was a son of God by the fulfilment of Prophecy.

I think you will appreciate this information since it at least gives me a reason to belive there is a God and confirms what I have always known about Christians. They can't get the story straight because they do not build on what their savior told them to build on.

Any ways, here is the link for the study. I think you will find it very detailed and factual based on prophecy with in the bible in comparison to the bible gospels and history

http://www.thedeathandresurection.co...surrection.pdf

This was the first easy study I have seen on this topic to follow since it uses common sense and every available piece of history for the topic to tell the story instead of the traditions that only use portions of bible verses only to fill in with speculations.

Todd Vetter
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,120,238 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd_vetter33 View Post
As an atheist I have mocked Christians for having holes in their testimony and not making a solid case for a God whom they claim is perfect. Finally someone has made a solid case for the posibility of who Jesus was and if he was a son of God by the fulfilment of Prophecy.

I think you will appreciate this information since it at least gives me a reason to belive there is a God and confirms what I have always known about Christians. They can't get the story straight because they do not build on what their savior told them to build on.

Any ways, here is the link for the study. I think you will find it very detailed and factual based on prophecy with in the bible in comparison to the bible gospels and history

http://www.thedeathandresurection.co...surrection.pdf

This was the first easy study I have seen on this topic to follow since it uses common sense and every available piece of history for the topic to tell the story instead of the traditions that only use portions of bible verses only to fill in with speculations.

Todd Vetter
Some would call your site Gnostic heresy....and they probably will if they check it out, especially people on this forum who hold that the bible we have is inerrant and infallible and there is no other scripture....what a bunch of bullhockey. I have also been studying other scripture that was in existence during the time of Jesus and will continue studying. It's a darn shame more people don't study all the information that is out there. Sorry for the rant....I can't comment on your site until I study it...but I definitely intend to study it.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:03 PM
 
16 posts, read 23,508 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Some would call your site Gnostic heresy....and they probably will if they check it out, especially people on this forum who hold that the bible we have is inerrant and infallible and there is no other scripture....what a bunch of bullhockey. I have also been studying other scripture that was in existence during the time of Jesus and will continue studying. It's a darn shame more people don't study all the information that is out there. Sorry for the rant....I can't comment on your site until I study it...but I definitely intend to study it.

The red Highlight from your reply is the very reason I have rejected God for the greater majority of My existence. Most Christians will deny the obvious but I have to say this study may change the opinion you hold.

Can a single event in history that lasted only a few minutes occur on more than one day? For the bible to be with out Error the 4 bible gospels would place the anointing in Bethany before the crucifixion on the same day. 3 bible gospels portray this event and according to the 3 gospels they portray this event on two separate days. The study gives very credible evidence that none of the 3 bible gospels are placing this event according to the prophecies that Jesus claimed to fulfill.

if the bible is inspired by the holy spirit then the holy spirit is a liar and does not inspire all truth. Yet the bible makes this claim about the holy spirit inspiring only truth. The christian makes the claim that the bible is perfect and this false claim has caused me and many I know to reject God.

If God's word is unchanging and solid, What the Christian cannot explain to me with credibility is why the bible versions differ with every new version made. why some bible versions have more books than others. Some books within the bible have more chapters and verses than others.

Yet in the book it says that Scripture is God breathed and solid truth.

Can the Christian in truth claim a book is the word of God when the book appears to record the Word of God interacting with men? Word of God according to the bible appears to = voice of truth from Heaven. Yet not all of what is recorded by man in the bible appears to be solid truth from heaven.

The study shared does illustrate that the Prophecies (scriptures/voice of truth from heaven) that God may have actaully spoke are solid. What is better about this study is that it illustrates clearly the Errors that do exist in the bible by simply comparing the testimonies of the 4 bible gospels in detail against real time as we keep it today and also as God allegedly defined time.

Will a Christian call a study that I find to be the most credible proof to date, that God is real, Heresey since it illustrates there are errors in the traditions of Christian belief?

Take the study for what it's worth. It is a letter and even the bible says the letter kills. It's the spirit that gives life. I may seek this spirit of truth due to this study, but i'm not sure where to start.

Do I start with going to a denomination that for hundreds of years was not able to make this good a case for God? Or should I do what the Christians are not doing, Keep the laws of God instead of making excuses for why they are not that important?

Who knows; if God is real, maybe he will talk to me if keeping the Law makes someone of the truth; It is said by Jesus that those of the truth will hear his voice. It appears he fulfilled 3 days and 3 nights maybe he can talk to people and the Christian just doesn't know this. I do know Christians will read about the men of the past who did hear God's voice. Can you hear God's voice? Who today is in spirit and in truth as the true worshippers of God are to be?

If the bible tells false testimony for even one single event and men call the lie, truth; Are they in spirit and in truth or are they Anti-christ? I know Christ is the annointing of spirit received first by Jesus at his baptism and then by the apostles on the day of pentacost. Why does the Christian world not have this annointing if it is a requirement for entering the kingdom and having eternal life?

Very respectfully,

Todd

Last edited by todd_vetter33; 12-15-2009 at 07:59 PM..
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:23 PM
 
16 posts, read 23,508 times
Reputation: 11
Default A simple test of true witness

Is the bible the word of God? YES NO

Is the bible inspired by the Holy Spirit and perfect in every way? YES NO

If the bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit who leads to all truth and teaches all truth, can any lie be found in the bible that would misrepresent Jesus as God’s son by the fulfillment of Prophecy? YES NO

Was Jesus the Passover Lamb in the year that He died? YES NO

Proverbs 6:19
A false witnesses who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren

dis·cord (d s kôrd ) n.. 1. a. Lack of agreement among persons, groups, or things. b. Tension or strife resulting from a lack of agreement; dissension.

If a False witness is one who speaks lies and only sows discord, Can they take the Gospel of Jesus to the world? YES NO

Proverbs 14:25
A true witnesses delivers souls, But a deceitful witness speaks lies

If a true witness delivers souls then No lie will be found in their testimony. Have you told me any lies while answering the first 4 questions? YES NO

Leviticus 23 NKJV
4‘These are the feasts of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times. 5 On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the Lord's Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it. 8 But you shall offer an offering made by fire to the LORD for seven days. The seventh day shall be a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it.

Exodus 12
6 Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at twilight.

It's clear by these two prophecies regarding the Passover lamb that it was to die on the 14th day and that the feast of unleavend bread was not until the 15th day.

Based on the Laws of Moses concerning the Passover, Does Matt 26: 17-18 speak a lie or truth?

Matthew 26: 17-18

17 Now on the first day of the Feast of the Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, “Where do you want us to prepare for you to eat the Passover?” 18 And He said, “Go into the city to a certain man, and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, “My time is at hand; I will keep the Passover at your house with My disciples.”’”

If Jesus was alive on the first day of Unleavened bread (15th day) How did He die on the 14th day according to the Laws of Moses?

One lesson I learned as a child is that a lie will always beget another lie. Do Christian lie when they say the Matthew verse that appears to destroy the Credibility of Christ as the passover lamb is true. Do they beget lies in speculation by claiming this story was being told to somone who kept a different reconning of time?

very respectfully,

Todd M. vetter
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,120,238 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd_vetter33 View Post
The red Highlight from your reply is the very reason I have rejected God for the greater majority of My existence. Most Christians will deny the obvious but I have to say this study may change the opinion you hold.

Can a single event in history that lasted only a few minutes occur on more than one day? For the bible to be with out Error the 4 bible gospels would place the anointing in Bethany before the crucifixion on the same day. 3 bible gospels portray this event and according to the 3 gospels they portray this event on two separate days. The study gives very credible evidence that none of the 3 bible gospels are placing this event according to the prophecies that Jesus claimed to fulfill.

if the bible is inspired by the holy spirit then the holy spirit is a liar and does not inspire all truth. Yet the bible makes this claim about the holy spirit inspiring only truth. The christian makes the claim that the bible is perfect and this false claim has caused me and many I know to reject God.

If God's word is unchanging and solid, What the Christian cannot explain to me with credibility is why the bible versions differ with every new version made. why some bible versions have more books than others. Some books within the bible have more chapters and verses than others.

Yet in the book it says that Scripture is God breathed and solid truth.

Can the Christian in truth claim a book is the word of God when the book appears to record the Word of God interacting with men? Word of God according to the bible appears to = voice of truth from Heaven. Yet not all of what is recorded by man in the bible appears to be solid truth from heaven.

The study shared does illustrate that the Prophecies (scriptures/voice of truth from heaven) that God may have actaully spoke are solid. What is better about this study is that it illustrates clearly the Errors that do exist in the bible by simply comparing the testimonies of the 4 bible gospels in detail against real time as we keep it today and also as God allegedly defined time.

Will a Christian call a study that I find to be the most credible proof to date, that God is real, Heresey since it illustrates there are errors in the traditions of Christian belief?

Take the study for what it's worth. It is a letter and even the bible says the letter kills. It's the spirit that gives life. I may seek this spirit of truth due to this study, but i'm not sure where to start.

Do I start with going to a denomination that for hundreds of years was not able to make this good a case for God? Or should I do what the Christians are not doing, Keep the laws of God instead of making excuses for why they are not that important?

Who knows; if God is real, maybe he will talk to me if keeping the Law makes someone of the truth; It is said by Jesus that those of the truth will hear his voice. It appears he fulfilled 3 days and 3 nights maybe he can talk to people and the Christian just doesn't know this. I do know Christians will read about the men of the past who did hear God's voice. Can you hear God's voice? Who today is in spirit and in truth as the true worshippers of God are to be?

If the bible tells false testimony for even one single event and men call the lie, truth; Are they in spirit and in truth or are they Anti-christ? I know Christ is the annointing of spirit received first by Jesus at his baptism and then by the apostles on the day of pentacost. Why does the Christian world not have this annointing if it is a requirement for entering the kingdom and having eternal life?

Very respectfully,

Todd
You'll get no beef from me on any of the points you've raised. I have studied other scriptures and not just the bible so I can relate to where you're coming from. I am well aware that the scriptures we call the bible had been edited, rewritten and manipulated to accommodate a political agenda....that is why I search all scripture available and let the Spirit lead me into all TRUTH. It's a shame more people don't do that....there would be so much less confusion about Gods plan and what He accomplished with it.

P.S. You will not find any "church" that will appreciate what you've learned and most will let you know you're not welcome. I've experienced this first hand.....preachers and pastors don't like it when their flock bucks their supposed authority.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:55 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd_vetter33 View Post
As an atheist I have mocked Christians for having holes in their testimony and not making a solid case for a God whom they claim is perfect. Finally someone has made a solid case for the posibility of who Jesus was and if he was a son of God by the fulfilment of Prophecy.

I think you will appreciate this information since it at least gives me a reason to belive there is a God and confirms what I have always known about Christians. They can't..............
Thanks but no argument in the world will cause anyone to reject or embrace God. I can give you the greatest argument you have ever heard for the existence of God only to have someone tomorrow with a better argument to argue against.

Moderator cut: personal assumption You can't seek Him on your own, it is impossible. We on our own cannot generate that type of faith.

Hebrews 11:6

"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."

Last edited by Miss Blue; 12-17-2009 at 09:26 PM..
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Old 12-16-2009, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Michaux State Forest
1,276 posts, read 2,908,175 times
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Fundamentalist, I don't know why you feel that a person cannot seek God alone. I rather seek God on my own than thru corrupt organized religion. I eschew organized religion but certaintly not God. Of course I can't say that my faith has never waivered because it has, but I definetly believe in God(s).
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Old 12-16-2009, 10:32 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilred0005 View Post
Fundamentalist, I don't know why you feel that a person cannot seek God alone. I rather seek God on my own than thru corrupt organized religion. I eschew organized religion but certaintly not God. Of course I can't say that my faith has never waivered because it has, but I definetly believe in God(s).
To seek God on your own means to seek Him without Him calling you, seeking Him from your own will and nature, seek Him without Him giving you faith to believe in Him. We seek Him because He first sought us.
Seeking Him through organized religion is not scriptural?
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Old 12-16-2009, 02:47 PM
 
20,307 posts, read 15,661,748 times
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Even in the Millennium, with Jesus Christ physically on the earth, ruling from the throne of David, and with the world full of the knowledge of God, there will still be those who reject Him. The sad and tragic fact is that there are people who just simply don't want to have anything to do with God. There are those who don't want to be answerable to a Just and Holy God, and will go to any length necessary to deny His existance.

And when a person chooses to reject the truth, then God will send strong delusion on that person so that they may believe a lie. Jeremiah 29:13 says, ''And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.'' But those who choose not to know God, who foolishly think that they can be independent of God, just as Lucifer thought he could be independent of God, are going to find out when it is too late, the terrible mistake they have made.

God has made His presence known in human history. He has revealed Himself in various ways. Hebrews 1:1 says, ''GOD, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2) in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.''

The foolishness, the arrogance, the pride of the one who denies the existance of the eternal, and infinite triune God of the universe. Those who choose to be separate from God will have their wish thoughout all eternity. In the eternal lake of fire.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2) He was in the beginning with God. 3) All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4) In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5) And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.


John 3:16 ''For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17) ''For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. 18) He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already; because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19) ''And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their deeds were evil. 20) ''For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21) ''But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.''

Phil. 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, 6) Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God, 7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man; 8) And, being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9) Therefore, God also has highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, 11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God, the Father.

Therefore, while there is still time to make the most important decision that can be made in life, Acts 16:31 ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved,''
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:07 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
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Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Actually I was made by my parents and grew in the womb for 9 months, just like everyone else.
Remember this is hypothetical of God existing. You wouldn't have parents if not for God. So if God existed, why wouldn'y you love and want to serve Him for all the good things He has given you? Doesn't He derserve it?
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