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Old 11-16-2010, 09:11 PM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,436,651 times
Reputation: 8382

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
I have no problem with non-Christians posting here, I actually like some of them like Insane. The difference is that you mock and ridicule as opposed to question and challenge.

When your goal is just to mock and ridicule our beliefs many of us have nothing to discuss with you.

Thanks for stopping by.
How often is what believers quickly label as mock and ridicule is actually to question and inject counterpoints to absurdities from your side of the table.

Granted this sub forum is for the discussion of christianity, but that does not mean it has to be a one sided rah rah session. When you discuss anything, it is important to discuss all aspects, including the negatives, and I feel important to challenge the absurdities, to accept anything without question is a dangerous practice.

Granted many would love to totally silence any and all disparaging words about christianity. Why? Is it so fragile, are beliefs so insecure?

I know, thanks for coming
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 6,593,512 times
Reputation: 851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason28 View Post
I can see why too as it goes directly against how Christians process reality.
That is a stereotype though we know most stereotypes generally have some truth behind them. I'm very hard on literalists too but there is a reason people are like they are and I try to understand the whys as opposed to just calling them ridiculous.

I believe it is in the best interests of our future as a species to stop the extreme polarization of attitudes on both sides. What's beautiful to me is a Christian who can understand an atheist's point of view and vice versa without implying evil intentions or stupidity. It's a fine line though - no? Hard to be blunt and kind simultaneously.

I personally love having all my beliefs challenged. It seems to me that attitudes are based more on personality than on beliefs.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:40 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,172,814 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
How often is what believers quickly label as mock and ridicule is actually to question and inject counterpoints to absurdities from your side of the table.

Granted this sub forum is for the discussion of christianity, but that does not mean it has to be a one sided rah rah session. When you discuss anything, it is important to discuss all aspects, including the negatives, and I feel important to challenge the absurdities, to accept anything without question is a dangerous practice.

Granted many would love to totally silence any and all disparaging words about christianity. Why? Is it so fragile, are beliefs so insecure?

I know, thanks for coming
No, it does not need to be one sided, I actually go against much of what many Christians believe. I have no problem with questions but for the most part you and a couple others only get the stereotypical argument as opposed to the intellectual because of your lead off with puts downs of our beliefs.

That type of mocking only draws the emotional Christians who for the most part do more to embarrass Christianity than help it. Maybe that is your goal but I would imagine that type of thing would get boring for you.

The only way your views would be silent is if you do it to yourself, the more you mock the more people will ignore.

Take the Insane approach, he has lot of friends on here. Just trying to help.
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:08 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 11,576,884 times
Reputation: 58253
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
No, it does not need to be one sided, I actually go against much of what many Christians believe. I have no problem with questions but for the most part you and a couple others only get the stereotypical argument as opposed to the intellectual because of your lead off with puts downs of our beliefs.

That type of mocking only draws the emotional Christians who for the most part do more to embarrass Christianity than help it. Maybe that is your goal but I would imagine that type of thing would get boring for you.

The only way your views would be silent is if you do it to yourself, the more you mock the more people will ignore.

Take the Insane approach, he has lot of friends on here. Just trying to help.
Thanks Hilgi, what people don't seem to understand is that this is an old thread and it's a long one and when I started it I was still a fundamentalist ETer. I've already had all the arguments and it's gotten really old. I don't care to even discuss the "end times" any longer, as I'm not even sure how I feel about it anymore. Now it's more of a "well, let's just wait and see how this all plays out" rather than demanding that it will be a certain way and that it's upon us. I'm still studying and learning and I haven't even gotten to what I believe about Revelation so it's hard for me to debate when it's all so up in the air.

Right now I still believe that we are living in the end times and that there will be an actual Anti-Christ, a mark of the beast and a 7 year tribulation because that's how I read the scriptures and it doesn't make sense to me any other way. It's too literal to try and spiritualize all of Revelation...to me. I understand that others here who are UR's have a tendency to believe that it's all spiritual (except for Eusebius) but like Eusebius I think the best way to read the scriptures is dispensationally and that is in keeping with all that I'm saying here. I may sound wishy-washy but when you go from 40 plus years of believing one thing to be the absolute truth to believing something totally foreign and new then everything gets cast in a different light.

I understand that the atheists want to argue with me, the OP, but I'm done arguing over it. All I can say is I firmly believed all of it when I posted the OP. And I still believe it, I just don't believe that these people who want to argue with me about it are going to spend an eternity in hell because of their disbelief. Now that's good news!!
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:42 AM
 
2,191 posts, read 4,792,829 times
Reputation: 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
I understand that the atheists want to argue with me, the OP, but I'm done arguing over it. All I can say is I firmly believed all of it when I posted the OP. And I still believe it, I just don't believe that these people who want to argue with me about it are going to spend an eternity in hell because of their disbelief. Now that's good news!!
That's all fine and dandy but when you crap on someone else's opinion don't act all high and mighty when other people crap on yours. It's hypocritical, unfair, and condescending.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:08 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 11,576,884 times
Reputation: 58253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason28 View Post
That's all fine and dandy but when you crap on someone else's opinion don't act all high and mighty when other people crap on yours. It's hypocritical, unfair, and condescending.
What are you talking about? Because I disagreed with someone? Geez you're right, that never happens here.
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:16 PM
 
2,191 posts, read 4,792,829 times
Reputation: 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
What are you talking about? Because I disagreed with someone? Geez you're right, that never happens here.
The attitude is what is annoying...people disagree on forums all day long. You tell others that they're opinion is wrong but when someone else tells you that your opinion is wrong you "take your ball and go home". I may have been harsh with my points but it's not that different of a scenario. My original intention wasn't to offend, even though I posted an absolutely hilarious website. I actually have somewhat of a similar view to you in regards to animals going to "heaven". I just don't view heaven in the same light as you do. If you want, you can read my views on the matter, and if not, thats okay too. What follows is a long rant about my view of how things work in terms of the afterlife. This is the short version, by the way.

I'll point out a few things about the topic of conversation so that you can better see my viewpoint. I dislike the preconceived notions of stereotyping but I'm still a victim of it as much as everyone else is. I used to be a christian for a very long time and I fully understand all of it's entirety. I'm not overly fond of most christians because I see their viewpoints as illogical and not based in reality. Science proves it wrong. The thing is, I can also see and understand the spiritual aspect of things. The one that science can't explain. There is a lot of room for a middle ground there.

I don't like labels because they give an illusion of people being able to fully judge one another based on what something should or shouldn't be. So to just call me an atheist and wrap it up as case closed heathen is not a fair or accurate representation of the situation. Especially the fire and brimstone types that use fear and eternal torture as their primary instruments of helping people "See the light", lmao. Please.

Likewise, I'm still learning that all christians aren't the same as there are literally tens of thousands of different versions. Some more lenient than others, while some are totally beyond talking to as they seem more like an animated zombie than a human. I won't mention any names.

My personal thoughts on the subject, based on my own research, reading, and understanding is that every living thing has an energy. That energy can't be extinguished, so in other words, once something's physical house (so to speak) for it's energy dies, it simply moves onto another plane of existence. Weather someone wants to call it heaven, focus 24, or a garden doesn't really make much difference.

I also think that whatever people believe while they're here will directly influence where they go when they die. For example. If someone believed in God and basic christianity, they will most likely go somewhere with several million people all sitting in some giant church singing to "God" all day long. If someone believed in reincarnation they may just get their chance at being a zebra. If someone believed they were going to some type of hell, well then they'd probably get that.

Furthermore. It also depends on the mental state of someone when they die. Some people may pass on in a very depressed state and be stuck being sad. Once dead, people can get stuck in behavior loops where they can't retreat back to a physical body to "reset" what's going on. Kind of like how most people view a bad dream but without being able to wake up. This is how people get stuck close to earth and explains "haunted houses". If someone felt they were wronged, was angry, or couldn't let go of the physical for some reason, then they would end up here.

There are all kinds of regions in between earth and whatever is at the top, so to speak, where anything you can think of is happening. There is however higher levels of which I have no knowledge. Most of the higher and advanced beings only suggest things like a sea of consciousness, much like people being billions of computers all hooked up to the internet. This may be what people refer to as "God" but I think to even try to attach a word to it is kind of hard. This is the core of most religions in "Do unto others" and "God is Love". People need to learn to love others because we're all one.

You can step out of your physical body and see any of the things I have just mentioned for yourself. There are guides there that a lot of people mistake for angels with incredibly high vibrational rates. If you've ever read anything about near death experiences, you'll see much the same thing. You'll be able to see the mythical silver cord attached to your body and experience anything you can wrap your mind around. What more proof can anyone provide for anything than that? And yes, animals can do the same thing in terms of stepping out of their physical bodies. I can tell you with absolute certainty that they exist in afterlife realms.

You'll probably dismiss everything I've just said as heresy, lies, satanism, and all other wide range of propaganda but know this. I can prove to myself that these things are real, as can anyone else who temporarily leaves their physical body. And how bad is having wildly different views of the same thing? If we both believe animals go to "heaven", both don't believe in hell, and both believe in some form of a "god", what's the difference? All humans are equal regardless. Just some food for thought.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:11 PM
 
5,503 posts, read 5,539,874 times
Reputation: 5164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason28 View Post
I'll point out a few things about the topic of conversation so that you can better see my viewpoint. I dislike the preconceived notions of stereotyping but I'm still a victim of it as much as everyone else is. I used to be a christian for a very long time and I fully understand all of it's entirety. I'm not overly fond of most christians because I see their viewpoints as illogical and not based in reality. Science proves it wrong. The thing is, I can also see and understand the spiritual aspect of things. The one that science can't explain. There is a lot of room for a middle ground there.

I don't like labels because they give an illusion of people being able to fully judge one another based on what something should or shouldn't be. So to just call me an atheist and wrap it up as case closed heathen is not a fair or accurate representation of the situation. Especially the fire and brimstone types that use fear and eternal torture as their primary instruments of helping people "See the light", lmao. Please.

Likewise, I'm still learning that all christians aren't the same as there are literally tens of thousands of different versions. Some more lenient than others, while some are totally beyond talking to as they seem more like an animated zombie than a human. I won't mention any names.

My personal thoughts on the subject, based on my own research, reading, and understanding is that every living thing has an energy. That energy can't be extinguished, so in other words, once something's physical house (so to speak) for it's energy dies, it simply moves onto another plane of existence. Weather someone wants to call it heaven, focus 24, or a garden doesn't really make much difference.

I also think that whatever people believe while they're here will directly influence where they go when they die. For example. If someone believed in God and basic christianity, they will most likely go somewhere with several million people all sitting in some giant church singing to "God" all day long. If someone believed in reincarnation they may just get their chance at being a zebra. If someone believed they were going to some type of hell, well then they'd probably get that.

Furthermore. It also depends on the mental state of someone when they die. Some people may pass on in a very depressed state and be stuck being sad. Once dead, people can get stuck in behavior loops where they can't retreat back to a physical body to "reset" what's going on. Kind of like how most people view a bad dream but without being able to wake up. This is how people get stuck close to earth and explains "haunted houses". If someone felt they were wronged, was angry, or couldn't let go of the physical for some reason, then they would end up here.

There are all kinds of regions in between earth and whatever is at the top, so to speak, where anything you can think of is happening. There is however higher levels of which I have no knowledge. Most of the higher and advanced beings only suggest things like a sea of consciousness, much like people being billions of computers all hooked up to the internet. This may be what people refer to as "God" but I think to even try to attach a word to it is kind of hard. This is the core of most religions in "Do unto others" and "God is Love". People need to learn to love others because we're all one.

You can step out of your physical body and see any of the things I have just mentioned for yourself. There are guides there that a lot of people mistake for angels with incredibly high vibrational rates. If you've ever read anything about near death experiences, you'll see much the same thing. You'll be able to see the mythical silver cord attached to your body and experience anything you can wrap your mind around. What more proof can anyone provide for anything than that? And yes, animals can do the same thing in terms of stepping out of their physical bodies. I can tell you with absolute certainty that they exist in afterlife realms.

You'll probably dismiss everything I've just said as heresy, lies, satanism, and all other wide range of propaganda but know this. I can prove to myself that these things are real, as can anyone else who temporarily leaves their physical body. And how bad is having wildly different views of the same thing? If we both believe animals go to "heaven", both don't believe in hell, and both believe in some form of a "god", what's the difference? All humans are equal regardless. Just some food for thought.
I find this post very intriguing indeed, though some I may not agree...still, the gist still holds a "spiritual consciousness" that science may not be able to reconcile with because it's intangible, sensed but not seen...so to speak.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,192,722 times
Reputation: 2295
Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
I find this post very intriguing indeed, though some I may not agree...still, the gist still holds a "spiritual consciousness" that science may not be able to reconcile with because it's intangible, sensed but not seen...so to speak.
Intuition?
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:00 PM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
Reputation: 7792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason28 View Post
The attitude is what is annoying...people disagree on forums all day long. You tell others that they're opinion is wrong but when someone else tells you that your opinion is wrong you "take your ball and go home". I may have been harsh with my points but it's not that different of a scenario. My original intention wasn't to offend, even though I posted an absolutely hilarious website. I actually have somewhat of a similar view to you in regards to animals going to "heaven". I just don't view heaven in the same light as you do. If you want, you can read my views on the matter, and if not, thats okay too. What follows is a long rant about my view of how things work in terms of the afterlife. This is the short version, by the way.

I'll point out a few things about the topic of conversation so that you can better see my viewpoint. I dislike the preconceived notions of stereotyping but I'm still a victim of it as much as everyone else is. I used to be a christian for a very long time and I fully understand all of it's entirety. I'm not overly fond of most christians because I see their viewpoints as illogical and not based in reality. Science proves it wrong. The thing is, I can also see and understand the spiritual aspect of things. The one that science can't explain. There is a lot of room for a middle ground there.

I don't like labels because they give an illusion of people being able to fully judge one another based on what something should or shouldn't be. So to just call me an atheist and wrap it up as case closed heathen is not a fair or accurate representation of the situation. Especially the fire and brimstone types that use fear and eternal torture as their primary instruments of helping people "See the light", lmao. Please.

Likewise, I'm still learning that all christians aren't the same as there are literally tens of thousands of different versions. Some more lenient than others, while some are totally beyond talking to as they seem more like an animated zombie than a human. I won't mention any names.

My personal thoughts on the subject, based on my own research, reading, and understanding is that every living thing has an energy. That energy can't be extinguished, so in other words, once something's physical house (so to speak) for it's energy dies, it simply moves onto another plane of existence. Weather someone wants to call it heaven, focus 24, or a garden doesn't really make much difference.

I also think that whatever people believe while they're here will directly influence where they go when they die. For example. If someone believed in God and basic christianity, they will most likely go somewhere with several million people all sitting in some giant church singing to "God" all day long. If someone believed in reincarnation they may just get their chance at being a zebra. If someone believed they were going to some type of hell, well then they'd probably get that.

Furthermore. It also depends on the mental state of someone when they die. Some people may pass on in a very depressed state and be stuck being sad. Once dead, people can get stuck in behavior loops where they can't retreat back to a physical body to "reset" what's going on. Kind of like how most people view a bad dream but without being able to wake up. This is how people get stuck close to earth and explains "haunted houses". If someone felt they were wronged, was angry, or couldn't let go of the physical for some reason, then they would end up here.

There are all kinds of regions in between earth and whatever is at the top, so to speak, where anything you can think of is happening. There is however higher levels of which I have no knowledge. Most of the higher and advanced beings only suggest things like a sea of consciousness, much like people being billions of computers all hooked up to the internet. This may be what people refer to as "God" but I think to even try to attach a word to it is kind of hard. This is the core of most religions in "Do unto others" and "God is Love". People need to learn to love others because we're all one.

You can step out of your physical body and see any of the things I have just mentioned for yourself. There are guides there that a lot of people mistake for angels with incredibly high vibrational rates. If you've ever read anything about near death experiences, you'll see much the same thing. You'll be able to see the mythical silver cord attached to your body and experience anything you can wrap your mind around. What more proof can anyone provide for anything than that? And yes, animals can do the same thing in terms of stepping out of their physical bodies. I can tell you with absolute certainty that they exist in afterlife realms.

You'll probably dismiss everything I've just said as heresy, lies, satanism, and all other wide range of propaganda but know this. I can prove to myself that these things are real, as can anyone else who temporarily leaves their physical body. And how bad is having wildly different views of the same thing? If we both believe animals go to "heaven", both don't believe in hell, and both believe in some form of a "god", what's the difference? All humans are equal regardless. Just some food for thought.
Here is some food for your thought, Jason.

My Synthesis1

My Synthesis2

My Synthesis3

My Synthesis4

My Synthesis5
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