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Old 12-23-2009, 01:17 AM
3,067 posts, read 3,443,314 times
Reputation: 241


When dealing with a question about the eternal fate of any child, be it born or unborn...we have to be very careful.
One wrong word can cause a lot of pain that will be recorded in heaven and will come up again at the final Judgment.

Thus we should always offer hope, companionship, but never go off and make statements that are not supported by the text...
If I were to start to make some blanket statements that are not supported by the text, even if I meant well, the sin I would be guilty of is Taking The Name Of the lord In Vain....for I would be saying something that God did not say...

Old 12-23-2009, 07:32 AM
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,361,073 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by alanMolstad
Moderator cut: Orphaned
Moderator cut: Off topic/contributing to hijacking

Originally Posted by alanmolstad
Moderator cut: Orphanded
Moderator cut: Orphaned/off topic

Originally Posted by scottmac112
Exactly. Which is why murdering is expressly prohibited by the Ten Commandments.
True, but not preventing murder makes you equally guilty of murder.
If you believe that abortion is murder, yet for example you continue to allow (addicted) women to give birth to babies with literally no brain, or an open back or no stomach or some other serious condition where the survival rate is practically 0%, it then not only equals murder it also allows babies to come into a short life full of agony cut short by an early death.

And what about people who are mentally disabled and because of this are unable to take care of themselves yet still want a baby?
Should we allow people who can't take care of themselves to have children?
It is so easy to say yes all the while believing that God will provide while cold hard reality shows otherwise.
Allowing babies to be born in conditions where the parents can't even provide for the barest of necessities is worse than murder.

Last edited by june 7th; 12-23-2009 at 05:15 PM..
Old 12-23-2009, 08:32 AM
3,067 posts, read 3,443,314 times
Reputation: 241
My words in blue
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
If you believe that abortion is murder,
Yes, Abortion is the MURDER of a little baby.

And what about people who are mentally disabled.
Shall we now judge who is smart enough to have a child and who is not?
Once you start down that dark path it's not long before being the wrong race is grounds for not allowing a child to be born, being the wrong faith....being the wrong sex..

A far better way to walk in is to believe right at the start that "ALL" the unborn share the same basic human Right To Life!

Just believe that right at the start that you have no right to put to death any child.
Once you have that message of love in your heart as your guide, then you approach the sick child with open arms and a willingness to to be judged by how you work to save this child, and not just hope God understands why you spoke about killing the poor baby.

Should we allow people who can't take care of themselves to have children?
Each year a single mother is hurt in a car crash, ends up brain dead and yet later gives birth to a baby that she never knows.

Are we to put to death a child that has done nothing wrong to anyone, simply because the ill health of a parent?

Shall we hold the mental ability of a parent as the lone thing that
tells us to kill or not kill a totally Innocent baby?.

Lets hope that day NEVER comes
Old 12-23-2009, 08:37 AM
Location: southern california
54,423 posts, read 71,255,303 times
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per OP
very comforting. thanks for renaming all those people, "fetus". i will run over and tell that 7th month old kid they just slipped in a glad bag and slung in the can. he will feel much better. merry christmas
a tree hugger
Old 12-23-2009, 02:58 PM
Location: I'm around here someplace :)
3,633 posts, read 4,169,212 times
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Originally Posted by NJDevil View Post

If abortion didn't exist, we'd have thousands more children in orphanages, without family love and structure, leading to overpopulation and more crime. Why don't you dwell on that. Better yet, instead of spending your time attacking liberals and pro-choice supporters, try preaching with your ACTIONS instead of your words. Be a foster parent, or go help a homeless person.
if abortion didn't exist, perhaps people might be more inclined to view "responsibility" in terms of a) "what you do has an effect;
and b) stop looking at everything in life, including but not limited to babies, as "disposable-if-they're-not-convenient."
Old 12-23-2009, 04:06 PM
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,506,142 times
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Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Again, it's hypothetical..... IF those who are aborted or miscarried DO go directly to heaven... would you NOT agree that it would be BETTER for that to happen than for the person to actually be born and risk a chance at being eternally tortured? Can you not answer that hypothetical question?
Hi sparrow,

Psalm 51: 5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

John 3: 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

It's looking to be that no baby can get into Heaven without Christ, but....

Can God reach the unborn child in a dream and have the Gospel preached unto them via an angel, since He knows all those that would have sought Him since He knew them before the foundation of the world?

In 1 Corinthians 7th chapter, we read on how the possibility of a believer sanctifying the unbelieving spouse. Could it extend to the unborn child as well? When salvation comes to a believer: does it encompass a family?

Luke 19:8And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. 9And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Maybe God doesn't want to say anything directly in that regard because as the issue of abortion has a tendency to zoom in on the issue like a woman's right to her body, but it isn't her body that is being chopped up and pulled piece by piece out of the womb... and so by your question... you are zooming in on the unborn child's spiritual state, but ignoring the spiritual states of those involved in the abortion.

So in expounding on your question to what we do know...

Miscarriages are one thing: abortion is another. If God knew us before we were even conceived in the womb... and it has been written that evil shall not take pity on the fruit of the womb.... then life that is being aborted in the womb is murder when the mother's health is not in danger.

Granted, the legal evil of the day would include that to mean psychological health and emotional health... but yet.. amazing how that really doesn't do anything to alleviate that after an abortion.

So it goes to the spiritual standing with God from the doctors and the nurses and all the staff involved in the performance of the abortion as well as the woman under duress in seeking the abortion. It also goes to the society's standing with God for permitting the abortion to be legal.

A city like Ninevah was about to be judged. From what I recollect, they were not Jews. Yet God was going to judge them anyway, until they had repented.

Then before that, we have the Flood and all the evidence of the Flood in plain sight but evolutionists are having their hey day in ignoring the obviousness of how God judged the entire world by the Flood and the prophesy of God judging the world again by fire.

The point being... what we do know is how God will judge. A society... a nation.. even a world is answerable to God whethor or not they acknowledge Him or not.

Knowledge that is beyond what is knowable even by the scriptures is best left to God. What we do know is that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners from their sins and rationalizing abortion isn't helping anyone.

Women in the past has been able to give up their babies to orphanages or to "well to do" couples.... they can do it again without having an abortion.


And for those that have had abortions: This is a promise from God:

1 John 1: 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Those believers thinking about having an abortion:

1 Peter 4: 14If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Those believers by the help of Christ that are not choosing the abortion:

1 Peter 4: 3For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: 5Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

As for the society standing with God as per this nation ...it is looking grim.

No matter what anyone has done, Jesus Christ came to save sinners.

No matter what anyone is going through: Jesus Christ is the God that cares and is waiting for any that would call upon His name for help.
Old 12-23-2009, 05:16 PM
Location: Forests of Maine
29,319 posts, read 46,606,224 times
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Originally Posted by Enow View Post
... Seems to me that you are saying this to yourself. You do not have one verse saying that God says the fetuses are not alive. You are the one in denial.
Soul-life begins at birth. How many times do we truly need to post the Bible passages?

On the other hand you have no verse to say that a fetus is a live.


Not one single verse.

God's Words will stand. Yours will not.
Old 12-23-2009, 05:32 PM
7,779 posts, read 10,313,556 times
Reputation: 3331
Good evening folks...

We all know that this is a very contentious topic. Given the holiday season and June's holiday spirit, she has done her best to be as generous with this one as she can possibly be. However:

OFF TOPIC and HIJACKING POSTS (or contributing to, thereof) are in violation of the Terms of Service.

As such, this thread is:

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