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Old 12-23-2009, 02:43 PM
 
981 posts, read 539,395 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Actually the burden is on the atheist that something came from nothing, not enev darkness, that life came from non life, all this happened without rhyme or reason. One big cosmic accident or joke.
That's not what we're discussing, here, at all.
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Old 12-23-2009, 02:52 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 11,926,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justcause View Post
That's not what we're discussing, here, at all.
I know, just pointing out the onus is on them not us
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:07 PM
 
981 posts, read 539,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I know, just pointing out the onus is on them not us
I think it's on everyone.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,589 posts, read 2,974,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justcause View Post
"Possibility that there is a god" is simply synonymous with guesswork and wishful thinking. If I said there was a possibility that the tooth fairy exists, and I got the majority of people to believe it and organize religion around it, does that automatically mean the tooth fairy has a possibility of existing? No, of course not. The point is, you don't know that god exists, and you can't prove that god exists, so, up until you can, it is reasonable, scientifically speaking, to say that god does not exist. That's not "arrogance," it's simply deduction.

I suggest you go back and reread what I responded to you with. Make sure you really understand it, mmmk?

I am not making a case for Atheism, as I am not an Atheist and have no personal feelings involved. I am just stating that, logically, Atheism makes empirical sense while theism does not.
Oh, I am sure that I understand you quite clearly, mmmk? Should you name the tooth fairy as the possible creator of the unexplained universe, you may actually have some credibility. What I am saying is that that one telling little word, empirical, makes all the difference. If you start from the position that only the empirical is possible, then it is an easy jump to claim that only the empirical is probable. If you believe in the possibility of the supernatural, you are allowing for something which is possible, whether or not it is detectable within the confines of the universe it/he/she created. When it comes to the explanation of universal origin, I don't think this is an unreasonable position. I have not said that it is not a reasonable position to believe that God does not exist. But to believe it to the point of certainty? Oh, and I'll make sure to re-read all of your posts several times just to make sure I realize how "deep" you are.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:35 PM
 
981 posts, read 539,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
Oh, I am sure that I understand you quite clearly, mmmk? Should you name the tooth fairy as the possible creator of the unexplained universe, you may actually have some credibility. What I am saying is that that one telling little word, empirical, makes all the difference. If you start from the position that only the empirical is possible, then it is an easy jump to claim that only the empirical is probable. If you believe in the possibility of the supernatural, you are allowing for something which is possible, whether or not it is detectable within the confines of the universe it/he/she created. When it comes to the explanation of universal origin, I don't think this is an unreasonable position. I have not said that it is not a reasonable position to believe that God does not exist. But to believe it to the point of certainty? Oh, and I'll make sure to re-read all of your posts several times just to make sure I realize how "deep" you are.
It's unreasonable because you are dealing with arbitrary possibilities. If you believe god exists without a shred of evidence, then what's to stop other people from believing in whatever they wish to believe just as strongly as you do? They have just as much claim to the certainty of things that you do.

As for certainty with Atheism - empirically, an Atheist is more "certain" than a theist about their position. That certainly doesn't mean an Atheist knows, without question, that there is no god. But, until the evidence becomes available, the reasonable and logical stance is Atheism.

I never said I was "deep." You are just being overly combative for no reason, like Ingraham.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
22,317 posts, read 11,784,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justcause View Post
I think it's on everyone.
Justcause - Again - I agree with your reasoning. If someone wants to claim how the earth was created - then they should be able to spell it out.

However, here's the problem. Nobody was there. There is no proof one way or the other. The atheist position is of faith. The Christian view is on faith. The thing is, the Bible says this.

Heb. 11:3 - By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

I think Christians waste their time trying to prove God created the world. Just admit we take it by faith - just as they do - and call it a day.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:26 PM
 
810 posts, read 1,204,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
What evil predisposition compels you to spew such filth and venom at this joyous time of the year? Why not just endure your own miserable attitude . . . no need to spread the gloom and doom. If the angels felt His birth was cause for "tidings of great joy" . . . who cares what the ugly traditions of the primitives were thought to be prior to Jesus's birth?
I assure you, I have no evil disposition, and I don't feel I spewed filth or venom. I stated some facts. I feel that Jesus' life and sacrifice gives me a reason to be joyful year round. I am a Christian.

By allowing pagan traditions to saturate the holiday that you choose to celebrate as Jesus' birthday, it dillutes your argument for keeping "Jesus as the reason for the season". Jesus cares !
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,589 posts, read 2,974,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justcause View Post
It's unreasonable because you are dealing with arbitrary possibilities. If you believe god exists without a shred of evidence, then what's to stop other people from believing in whatever they wish to believe just as strongly as you do? They have just as much claim to the certainty of things that you do.

As for certainty with Atheism - empirically, an Atheist is more "certain" than a theist about their position. That certainly doesn't mean an Atheist knows, without question, that there is no god. But, until the evidence becomes available, the reasonable and logical stance is Atheism.

I never said I was "deep." You are just being overly combative for no reason, like Ingraham.
Perhaps I am being "overly combative" to your request that I reread your response to "be sure that I understand it". So be it. Apologies. In answer to your last post, there are implications involved in the belief of a creator that are not present in the belief of the tooth fairy or Santa. Niether of those beliefs can account for our existence. Also, a lack of evidence for the existence of God does not constitute proof of God's non-existence. The qualification of yours that the Atheist is more "empirically" certain of their stance is true. I would not, however, agree that it is the more logical stance. It is nice to see that you agree that neither position can be certain of their beliefs. It would seem that the most reasonable stance then would be agnosticism, and not atheism; that is "until the evidence is in".
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:40 PM
 
34,796 posts, read 22,621,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
I assure you, I have no evil disposition, and I don't feel I spewed filth or venom. I stated some facts. I feel that Jesus' life and sacrifice gives me a reason to be joyful year round. I am a Christian.
Nothing you said was joyful nor did it spread any joy during this season . . . so apparently you were taking a hiatus from your year-long joy.
Quote:
By allowing pagan traditions to saturate the holiday that you choose to celebrate as Jesus' birthday, it dillutes your argument for keeping "Jesus as the reason for the season". Jesus cares !
Pagan traditions are indulged in by pagans because that is THEIR INTENT. OUR intent has no paganism in it whatsoever . . . so botlle-up your judgmental attitude toward our festivities and joy at Christ's birth and go bother some real pagans.
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:16 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 11,926,778 times
Reputation: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Justcause - Again - I agree with your reasoning. If someone wants to claim how the earth was created - then they should be able to spell it out.
I disagree, evidence is all around us- the creation screams there is a creator. Even if you didn't want to worship or bend your knee to Him, you would be a fool not to believe that an intelligent, very powerful being didn't do all this.
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