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Old 10-22-2012, 01:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
The confusion of the faith versus works debates comes down to confusing cause and effect. One isn't saved by their ability to conform to the image of Jesus Christ with the new nature God has given them. They are saved only by believing in heart in God's Works in the the blood of Jesus Christ shed for their sins with faith in the resurrection. Upon believing one is baptized with the Holy Spirit of promise which seals the individual until the "day of redemption". The soul is Saved passing "from death unto life". Salvation from eternal Damnation is 100 percent a Work of God. Man is helpless to help themselves. The "good news" of the gospel is that God out of his love for mankind gave his only begotten son for them. The fulfillment of the Law in him, all man's burden is for life to simply believe on whom he sent. What is freely given isn't taken back. The model of God's Grace and ultimate demonstration for us is the Thief on the cross. The man was not fortunate he did not have the time to fail in his walk to enter paradise. All sins past, present, and future are entirely forgiven for those declared Justified in Christ.

This is just the beginning of the Christian walk. God works in and through the believer conforming them into the image of his Son. It is all God's works - even the process of sanctification separating them unto God by the power of his Holy Spirit. The born again child of God has a new nature and new heart desiring to please God. It's all God's works in and through the believer.

Ephesians 2:10 says "for we are his workmanship" Created in Christ Jesus. God is working in and through the clay. He is the Potter, and we are the clay. Even the preservation of the Saints is an act of God. << This is the misunderstanding many have with the Faith/Works debates.

Why this is important is that many have distorted the concept of Grace freely given to include the Walk of the believer. This is not faith in God Jesus Christ but puts the focus and trust on our walk. Just as one falling off a building backwards with faith God will catch them, that is what God wants from us. This is faith. He says believe on whom he sent to Justify us. Abraham offered Issac with faith God will do what he said - resurrect him. The faith is in God's faithfulness to his Word.

It's a shame so many Christians do not understand the rest God has freely given us in Jesus Christ and his completed work. Many have a legal relationship with God, but God says those justified are forgiven for their trespasses and are no longer in prison to be judged to death but freely set free and in the family room. Jesus Christ is not condemning believers in their failures in their walk but interceding for them.

A born again child of God trusting God's Works in Jesus Christ can not lose their Justification/Salvation from Perdition, but they can forfeit all that God has for them through unfaithfulness. Inheritance can be lost, and I believe that many Saved Christians could be in for a huge surprise. I do believe those that are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ but attempting to "get" to heaven by their walk could have all this effort go up as wood, hay, and stubble as it is misrepresenting the Grace of God. God also goes to the motive/heart of the action not the Work in of itself. Many good works could be done with the wrong motive. Many are with the motive that with their ability to refrain from sinning and doing good things they will be justified. This is not trusting Christ however but trusting self.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

As for Matthew 25, this is talking about the Judging of the Persons upon the return of Jesus Christ going into the millennium. This is a Works-based Judgment in which those will be judged based upon their treatment of God's people Israel. The Church will be gone at this time, and God will be working with the World as he did in the past through Israel. Those that survive the Great Tribulation and are declared by the Lord Jesus Christ as able to enter his Kingdom will be populating the world in the millennium.
I'm not sure if this is a rebutle or an affirmation of what I said. Which is it? I certainly do not preach salvation by self effort but rather, His works will work in and then through those who believe.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:00 PM
 
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Matthew 25:31-46 is Christ's return to this earth and judging the nations as to how they treated His brethren during their great tribulation.

The judgment is not concerning all mankind. There will most likely be representatives of each nation much like we have at the United Nations. If a nation treated His brethren poorly then that specific nation will get eonian or age-during chastening which lasts for the 1000 years.
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Winchester
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Th judgement of sheep an goats must correspond with the Great White Throne judgement of Revelations which also is a works based judgement.....it takes place AFTER the church is gathered "so shall we always be with the Lord" and AFTER the saints have reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Therefore the righteous sheep are not "...these My brethren" the saints, how could they be since they are judged by how they ministered to the saints?

This points to a MANYfold wider mercy than is generally held in evangelicalism.
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:05 PM
 
6,827 posts, read 4,256,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
I'm not sure if this is a rebutle or an affirmation of what I said. Which is it? I certainly do not preach salvation by self effort but rather, His works will work in and then through those who believe.
One error I find is that one is justified either at the end of their life or can lose it once they have it. According to Romans 3,4,5, etc one is Justified (past tense continuous) upon believing in Jesus Christ. Those Justified by the Spirit of Christ are sealed until the day of redemption (Ephesians 2).

It's important for the saints to understand that their Salvation is 100 percent entirely in God's hands so believers can rest in God's works trusting him.

Just wanted to share that it's not about us becoming like Jesus, but God working in us to conform us to the image of Jesus. It's an important distinction. The difference being our fleshly striving versus God's Works in and through us. The good news is such good news in that it entirely leaves man out of the process. God did it all if we just accept what he's done for us through Jesus Christ. Trusting in him entirely for performing what he said he would.

You got it Gary!

God bless you brother
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:37 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 11,157,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Totton Linnet View Post
Th judgement of sheep an goats must correspond with the Great White Throne judgement of Revelations which also is a works based judgement.....it takes place AFTER the church is gathered "so shall we always be with the Lord" and AFTER the saints have reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Therefore the righteous sheep are not "...these My brethren" the saints, how could they be since they are judged by how they ministered to the saints?

This points to a MANYfold wider mercy than is generally held in evangelicalism.
The judgment of the sheep and goat NATIONS is ***when*** Christ returns at the end of this eon. That is what Matthew 24:1-3 is all about. Jesus is answering the question

Matthew 24:1-3 And, coming out, Jesus went from the sanctuary. And His disciples approached to
exhibit to Him the buildings of the sanctuary." (2) Yet He, answering, said to them, "Are you not
observing all these? Verily, I am saying to you, Under no circumstances may a stone here be left on a
stone, which shall not be demolished." (3) Now at His sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came
to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what is the sign of Thy presence and of
the conclusion of the eon?

Then Jesus tells them what happens at the conclusion of this eon. He returns, judges the nations as to how they treated His brethren, sets up the 1000 year kingdom and then at the end of the thousand years there is the Great White Throne Judgment. So it is impossible for the judgment in Matthew to be the same at the G.W.T. judgment in Revelation.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:03 AM
 
2 posts, read 859 times
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Be careful...

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Be careful of what exactly, the verse says that faith is a gift of God, you can not earn faith or make yourself believe. Only God can give faith.

So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy.-Romans 9:16
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