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Old 01-10-2010, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,209,709 times
Reputation: 1685

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SisterKat View Post
Kat.....you are doing an amazing job at explaining the truth about Jesus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
The blind will not acknowledge this. They will focus on the flesh in lieu of the spirit when the spirit is the real. Those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will know that this is Truth.

Awesome post!!
I am so glad you both were touched by it. I hardly deserve the credit as I am just the one typing, or so I feel! But thank you nonetheless. It is nice to see others who understand the simplistic view of the gospel.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:19 PM
 
696 posts, read 753,887 times
Reputation: 66
[quote=katjonjj;12373718]Again you are under the assumption that God NEEDED a mediator.. God needs nothing.. Man required a mediator not God. From God's perspective according to truth.. no sacrifice is as great as his mercy. God abhorred sacrifices. It was for man's own conscience that this was all done.

Then how do you discount Christ and say he is no longer needed? I am under no assumption as I have clearly stated man needs a mediator.

Do you need to crucify Christ every time someone needs salvation or do really believe it is finished?

This truely is a legitimate question and I think this is our point of divergence. You view Christ as for all of humanity. As all of humanity clearly do not accept God or Christ as saviour I believe you are under the assumption that Christ deals with a whole. Each individual must accept Christ. As to how and why that is not for you or I to decide. If one were to think logically, this can't be done. No you do not crucify Christ, but one must go down with Christ in the body and rise again with Christ in spirit. You find anyone outside of Christianity that understand this they wont do it. Again humanity presumes innocence first and guilt second in themselves. This is not Biblically sound. You have posted about the Koran to me. No where not one page can a find anything that presumes guilt upon the individual. It points to guilt as a whole. I have walked in the middle east and have seen this never more to be true. I dont know if you have, but I again submit to you that Radicalism is on the rise. If you don't believe me I challenge you to go there and witness.

Exactly.. the covenant was from the beginning and man created sacrifices to appease God when it wasn't neccessary. Just like what you are doing here by trying to state that God NEEDS Christ to be God for the plan to work! Before Christ men were saved by the grace of God. It is man's perception of God that was in error. Christ finished his work on earth which was to show the real attributes of God: Love, mercy, longsuffering..etc.

Again a divergent path as animal sacrifice clearly points to Christ. As it appears you do not understand it I would suggest you reread it. While the Jews truely did not understand it, I humbly suggest you reread it. Animal sacrifice pointed to Christ and again it was for man to preform as man needed it. The sacrifice was intended to be used to display man understood this, but man did not. This is clear doctrine over all denominations. You will hardly find arguement here. Your grasp is a bit shaky here as again God did not need Christ. Where you get this from I do not know, but I have covered this above. I also submit to you that when Christ said it is finished it was clear that man's depravity is not. Our very existance is to give man a last chance to repent. The Lord is longsuffering that none should perish, but all should have eternal life. The majority of man again presumes innocence first and guilt second. Christ still is witnessing thru his church as he correctly told his followers " Go to All corners of the Earth and spread the Gospel." I would suggest you rethink your logic here you presume my thought, but its more what you choose to hear than what I have said.

Taken with what I have said while you have some focus in your words your logic is flawed I will no address them. The basis for Christianity is Christ first. If everything is Christ than what you associate with Christ than can be Truth. But without Christ you can not have Truth. You need explain nothing to me, because I see you have a yearning to understand, but some very easy errors. I have read a majority of your posts and your idea of Love is truely understood, but one does not simply love for the sake of love. Does not a parent discipline a child gone astray? That is love. If you deny Christ or state you do not need him, you do not have his Love. This is Christainity and what all the other religons of man reject. Either accept it or not. If Im wrong then fine I have no penalty, but if Im right then you run the risk of false scripture. I truely encourage you to reread what you have addressed to remove Christ and say he is not needed any longer points outside of Christianity then inside it. Let anyone pat you on the back if they like. This is the Truth no matter the denomination.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,050,046 times
Reputation: 664
[quote=Aschultz73;12392228]
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Again you are under the assumption that God NEEDED a mediator.. God needs nothing.. Man required a mediator not God. From God's perspective according to truth.. no sacrifice is as great as his mercy. God abhorred sacrifices. It was for man's own conscience that this was all done.

Then how do you discount Christ and say he is no longer needed? I am under no assumption as I have clearly stated man needs a mediator.

Do you need to crucify Christ every time someone needs salvation or do really believe it is finished?

This truely is a legitimate question and I think this is our point of divergence. You view Christ as for all of humanity. As all of humanity clearly do not accept God or Christ as saviour I believe you are under the assumption that Christ deals with a whole. Each individual must accept Christ. As to how and why that is not for you or I to decide. If one were to think logically, this can't be done. No you do not crucify Christ, but one must go down with Christ in the body and rise again with Christ in spirit. You find anyone outside of Christianity that understand this they wont do it. Again humanity presumes innocence first and guilt second in themselves. This is not Biblically sound. You have posted about the Koran to me. No where not one page can a find anything that presumes guilt upon the individual. It points to guilt as a whole. I have walked in the middle east and have seen this never more to be true. I dont know if you have, but I again submit to you that Radicalism is on the rise. If you don't believe me I challenge you to go there and witness.

Exactly.. the covenant was from the beginning and man created sacrifices to appease God when it wasn't neccessary. Just like what you are doing here by trying to state that God NEEDS Christ to be God for the plan to work! Before Christ men were saved by the grace of God. It is man's perception of God that was in error. Christ finished his work on earth which was to show the real attributes of God: Love, mercy, longsuffering..etc.

Again a divergent path as animal sacrifice clearly points to Christ. As it appears you do not understand it I would suggest you reread it. While the Jews truely did not understand it, I humbly suggest you reread it. Animal sacrifice pointed to Christ and again it was for man to preform as man needed it. The sacrifice was intended to be used to display man understood this, but man did not. This is clear doctrine over all denominations. You will hardly find arguement here. Your grasp is a bit shaky here as again God did not need Christ. Where you get this from I do not know, but I have covered this above. I also submit to you that when Christ said it is finished it was clear that man's depravity is not. Our very existance is to give man a last chance to repent. The Lord is longsuffering that none should perish, but all should have eternal life. The majority of man again presumes innocence first and guilt second. Christ still is witnessing thru his church as he correctly told his followers " Go to All corners of the Earth and spread the Gospel." I would suggest you rethink your logic here you presume my thought, but its more what you choose to hear than what I have said.

Taken with what I have said while you have some focus in your words your logic is flawed I will no address them. The basis for Christianity is Christ first. If everything is Christ than what you associate with Christ than can be Truth. But without Christ you can not have Truth. You need explain nothing to me, because I see you have a yearning to understand, but some very easy errors. I have read a majority of your posts and your idea of Love is truely understood, but one does not simply love for the sake of love. Does not a parent discipline a child gone astray? That is love. If you deny Christ or state you do not need him, you do not have his Love. This is Christainity and what all the other religons of man reject. Either accept it or not. If Im wrong then fine I have no penalty, but if Im right then you run the risk of false scripture. I truely encourage you to reread what you have addressed to remove Christ and say he is not needed any longer points outside of Christianity then inside it. Let anyone pat you on the back if they like. This is the Truth no matter the denomination.
Christianity as a religion needs Christ, however, people do not because we have His Truths. The commandments to Love God and each other. When we fail to Love, we are not following Christ. Love is the key to Heaven and it matters not if you are a christian, muslim, jew, buddhist, or whatever. Love is in all religions and beliefs.

Jesus came to deliver a message and He gave that message before His death. If we dwell on Him and not Love and God, we are denying our own souls the very thing Jesus taught. Jesus became Divine because He followed the Law of Love first and foremost. He encouraged the apostles to do the same, however, they didn't understand until pentecost. Then, most of those teachings were lost and rewritten to suit mans own needs. The Divine Love of God that we are to ask for was hidden and now we have those Truths again. Those who have closed their eyes to the Truth that Jesus taught will only prolong their ascencion but those who are listening, have the substance now and are doing the work that Jesus asked. We Love our neighbors and Love God. Nothing else matters. Nothing.

BTW, false beliefs do carry a penalty, albeit, not as a murderer would, but a penalty all the same. You will have to rid your soul of that false belief and you will also have to tell the ones you led astray the real Truth as you progress your soul.

No man can see God with encrustments and whether it be murder or a false belief, it will have to be paid. Love God and Love your neighbor. Everything else is just extra baggage.
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
823 posts, read 1,056,014 times
Reputation: 167
[quote=Reverend1111;12393148]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post

Christianity as a religion needs Christ, however, people do not because we have His Truths. The commandments to Love God and each other. When we fail to Love, we are not following Christ. Love is the key to Heaven and it matters not if you are a christian, muslim, jew, buddhist, or whatever. Love is in all religions and beliefs.

Jesus came to deliver a message and He gave that message before His death. If we dwell on Him and not Love and God, we are denying our own souls the very thing Jesus taught. Jesus became Divine because He followed the Law of Love first and foremost. He encouraged the apostles to do the same, however, they didn't understand until pentecost. Then, most of those teachings were lost and rewritten to suit mans own needs. The Divine Love of God that we are to ask for was hidden and now we have those Truths again. Those who have closed their eyes to the Truth that Jesus taught will only prolong their ascencion but those who are listening, have the substance now and are doing the work that Jesus asked. We Love our neighbors and Love God. Nothing else matters. Nothing.

BTW, false beliefs do carry a penalty, albeit, not as a murderer would, but a penalty all the same. You will have to rid your soul of that false belief and you will also have to tell the ones you led astray the real Truth as you progress your soul.

No man can see God with encrustments and whether it be murder or a false belief, it will have to be paid. Love God and Love your neighbor. Everything else is just extra baggage.

I second that
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,209,709 times
Reputation: 1685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Again you are under the assumption that God NEEDED a mediator.. God needs nothing.. Man required a mediator not God. From God's perspective according to truth.. no sacrifice is as great as his mercy. God abhorred sacrifices. It was for man's own conscience that this was all done.
Then how do you discount Christ and say he is no longer needed? I am under no assumption as I have clearly stated man needs a mediator.
I did not discount Christ! I believe that Jesus brought us the most wonderful principals and literally draws us to God. To me Jesus Christ is like a spotlight pointing at God in the heavens. Even from afar you can see the beam of light. But what I don't see is just the spotlight. I follow the beam of light to what is being highlighted...God. See Jesus showed us the image of God.

Jesus points to only one thing; he had one purpose. We see in scripture that he always pointed away from himself. It wasn't one of those spotlights that is used to attract you to what is happening at the base of the spotlight (organized religion), but rather what the spotlight is illuminating (God).

I love to see how much love and respect people have for Christ Jesus. I have that same love and respect. However, when that deification turns the spotlight on Jesus, I believe that is contrary to what Jesus taught.

Even if Jesus was God, he taught others to look away from him so they could better focus on God. It offends me, so to speak, when Christ is venerated in opposition to his pointing away from him and to God, because I see a disrespect for Christ's wishes.

Deut. 4:29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Matthew 22:37-38 And He [Jesus] said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' This is the first and greatest commandment.

John 5:30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Do you need to crucify Christ every time someone needs salvation or do really believe it is finished?
This truely is a legitimate question and I think this is our point of divergence. You view Christ as for all of humanity. As all of humanity clearly do not accept God or Christ as saviour I believe you are under the assumption that Christ deals with a whole.
Even Paul tells us that Christ died once. That means his sacrifice applied to either the whole past, present, and future human race or it applied to the past and present human race. I believe the one act reconciled man to God. Many don't take advantage of this, it is true, yet that doesn't change the truth that Jesus' act whether accepted or not, was done once.. for all:

Romans 6:10-11 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Alive TO GOD in Christ.. The focus is not only on God not Christ but he died once for all and I would surmise that you can consider yourself dead to sin or you can not consider yourself dead to sin...BUT the bottom line is that because of Christ you are dead to sin.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Exactly.. the covenant was from the beginning and man created sacrifices to appease God when it wasn't neccessary. Just like what you are doing here by trying to state that God NEEDS Christ to be God for the plan to work! Before Christ men were saved by the grace of God. It is man's perception of God that was in error. Christ finished his work on earth which was to show the real attributes of God: Love, mercy, longsuffering..etc.
Again a divergent path as animal sacrifice clearly points to Christ. As it appears you do not understand it I would suggest you reread it. While the Jews truely did not understand it, I humbly suggest you reread it. Animal sacrifice pointed to Christ and again it was for man to preform as man needed it. The sacrifice was intended to be used to display man understood this, but man did not. This is clear doctrine over all denominations. You will hardly find arguement here. Your grasp is a bit shaky here as again God did not need Christ. Where you get this from I do not know, but I have covered this above. I also submit to you that when Christ said it is finished it was clear that man's depravity is not. Our very existance is to give man a last chance to repent. The Lord is longsuffering that none should perish, but all should have eternal life. The majority of man again presumes innocence first and guilt second. Christ still is witnessing thru his church as he correctly told his followers " Go to All corners of the Earth and spread the Gospel." I would suggest you rethink your logic here you presume my thought, but its more what you choose to hear than what I have said.
I hear (read lol) what you are saying I think you miss the point of the sacrifices. Sacrifice always had more to do with the man than God.

Christ was sent to do a job for God, so to speak, not to take over for God. IMO

Quote:
Taken with what I have said while you have some focus in your words your logic is flawed I will no address them. The basis for Christianity is Christ first.
Yet Christ disagrees with you and points to the Father, God almighty as the focus for all children of God.

Quote:
If everything is Christ than what you associate with Christ than can be Truth. But without Christ you can not have Truth. You need explain nothing to me, because I see you have a yearning to understand, but some very easy errors.
I see... but I feel the same about your view.

Quote:
I have read a majority of your posts and your idea of Love is truely understood, but one does not simply love for the sake of love. Does not a parent discipline a child gone astray? That is love. If you deny Christ or state you do not need him, you do not have his Love.
Look at what you just said in bold above..

First, did Christ state that if I don't need him or deny him then I don't have his love?

Second, if one denies Christ and states they don't need him would they have any interest in his love?

The point I am trying to make is that I believe you are thinking that an unbeliever is capable of loving Christ. Is one who hears the gospel capable of turning the love of God away from himself by rejecting it? This, IMO, is what keeps people from truly loving themselves and others. If you are a father and your son rejects you do you think you could stop loving him? I think the same applies to God our father. Jesus did nothing but what the father told him to do, therefore Jesus would not stop loving anyone because he was rejected! He came to seek and save those very people.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost.


Quote:
This is Christainity and what all the other religons of man reject. Either accept it or not. If Im wrong then fine I have no penalty, but if Im right then you run the risk of false scripture. I truely encourage you to reread what you have addressed to remove Christ and say he is not needed any longer points outside of Christianity then inside it. Let anyone pat you on the back if they like. This is the Truth no matter the denomination.
I don't think you truly understand what I mean when I say there is no need for a mediator, but let me try to explain it once more.

Christ's purpose was to mediate the New Covenant. Once the New Covenant is established there is no more mediating for Jesus to do. I don't believe that makes Jesus any less important because I understand that he came to show us the way to God.. and that God is the focus as he always was..

It seems as if your focus is on the messenger rather than the message and the one who sent the message. At least from my perspective.
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:10 AM
 
696 posts, read 753,887 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I did not discount Christ! I believe that Jesus brought us the most wonderful principals and literally draws us to God. To me Jesus Christ is like a spotlight pointing at God in the heavens. Even from afar you can see the beam of light. But what I don't see is just the spotlight. I follow the beam of light to what is being highlighted...God. See Jesus showed us the image of God.

Jesus points to only one thing; he had one purpose. We see in scripture that he always pointed away from himself. It wasn't one of those spotlights that is used to attract you to what is happening at the base of the spotlight (organized religion), but rather what the spotlight is illuminating (God).

I love to see how much love and respect people have for Christ Jesus. I have that same love and respect. However, when that deification turns the spotlight on Jesus, I believe that is contrary to what Jesus taught.

Even if Jesus was God, he taught others to look away from him so they could better focus on God. It offends me, so to speak, when Christ is venerated in opposition to his pointing away from him and to God, because I see a disrespect for Christ's wishes.

Deut. 4:29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Matthew 22:37-38 And He [Jesus] said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' This is the first and greatest commandment.

John 5:30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me



Even Paul tells us that Christ died once. That means his sacrifice applied to either the whole past, present, and future human race or it applied to the past and present human race. I believe the one act reconciled man to God. Many don't take advantage of this, it is true, yet that doesn't change the truth that Jesus' act whether accepted or not, was done once.. for all:

Romans 6:10-11 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Alive TO GOD in Christ.. The focus is not only on God not Christ but he died once for all and I would surmise that you can consider yourself dead to sin or you can not consider yourself dead to sin...BUT the bottom line is that because of Christ you are dead to sin.


I hear (read lol) what you are saying I think you miss the point of the sacrifices. Sacrifice always had more to do with the man than God.

Christ was sent to do a job for God, so to speak, not to take over for God. IMO

Yet Christ disagrees with you and points to the Father, God almighty as the focus for all children of God.

I see... but I feel the same about your view.

Look at what you just said in bold above..

First, did Christ state that if I don't need him or deny him then I don't have his love?

Second, if one denies Christ and states they don't need him would they have any interest in his love?

The point I am trying to make is that I believe you are thinking that an unbeliever is capable of loving Christ. Is one who hears the gospel capable of turning the love of God away from himself by rejecting it? This, IMO, is what keeps people from truly loving themselves and others. If you are a father and your son rejects you do you think you could stop loving him? I think the same applies to God our father. Jesus did nothing but what the father told him to do, therefore Jesus would not stop loving anyone because he was rejected! He came to seek and save those very people.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost.


I don't think you truly understand what I mean when I say there is no need for a mediator, but let me try to explain it once more.

Christ's purpose was to mediate the New Covenant. Once the New Covenant is established there is no more mediating for Jesus to do. I don't believe that makes Jesus any less important because I understand that he came to show us the way to God.. and that God is the focus as he always was..

It seems as if your focus is on the messenger rather than the message and the one who sent the message. At least from my perspective.
Im sorry miss I am done with this thread. I point to the thread you replied to where I stated Christian thought from a true theology back ground. But let me say here as I have there your words are nothing new to me. I used them right thru all my sins.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:24 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,700,332 times
Reputation: 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I did not discount Christ! I believe that Jesus brought us the most wonderful principals and literally draws us to God. To me Jesus Christ is like a spotlight pointing at God in the heavens. Even from afar you can see the beam of light. But what I don't see is just the spotlight. I follow the beam of light to what is being highlighted...God. See Jesus showed us the image of God.

Jesus points to only one thing; he had one purpose. We see in scripture that he always pointed away from himself. It wasn't one of those spotlights that is used to attract you to what is happening at the base of the spotlight (organized religion), but rather what the spotlight is illuminating (God).

I love to see how much love and respect people have for Christ Jesus. I have that same love and respect. However, when that deification turns the spotlight on Jesus, I believe that is contrary to what Jesus taught.

Even if Jesus was God, he taught others to look away from him so they could better focus on God. It offends me, so to speak, when Christ is venerated in opposition to his pointing away from him and to God, because I see a disrespect for Christ's wishes.

Deut. 4:29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Matthew 22:37-38 And He [Jesus] said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' This is the first and greatest commandment.

John 5:30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me



Even Paul tells us that Christ died once. That means his sacrifice applied to either the whole past, present, and future human race or it applied to the past and present human race. I believe the one act reconciled man to God. Many don't take advantage of this, it is true, yet that doesn't change the truth that Jesus' act whether accepted or not, was done once.. for all:

Romans 6:10-11 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Alive TO GOD in Christ.. The focus is not only on God not Christ but he died once for all and I would surmise that you can consider yourself dead to sin or you can not consider yourself dead to sin...BUT the bottom line is that because of Christ you are dead to sin.


I hear (read lol) what you are saying I think you miss the point of the sacrifices. Sacrifice always had more to do with the man than God.

Christ was sent to do a job for God, so to speak, not to take over for God. IMO

Yet Christ disagrees with you and points to the Father, God almighty as the focus for all children of God.

I see... but I feel the same about your view.

Look at what you just said in bold above..

First, did Christ state that if I don't need him or deny him then I don't have his love?

Second, if one denies Christ and states they don't need him would they have any interest in his love?

The point I am trying to make is that I believe you are thinking that an unbeliever is capable of loving Christ. Is one who hears the gospel capable of turning the love of God away from himself by rejecting it? This, IMO, is what keeps people from truly loving themselves and others. If you are a father and your son rejects you do you think you could stop loving him? I think the same applies to God our father. Jesus did nothing but what the father told him to do, therefore Jesus would not stop loving anyone because he was rejected! He came to seek and save those very people.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost.


I don't think you truly understand what I mean when I say there is no need for a mediator, but let me try to explain it once more.

Christ's purpose was to mediate the New Covenant. Once the New Covenant is established there is no more mediating for Jesus to do. I don't believe that makes Jesus any less important because I understand that he came to show us the way to God.. and that God is the focus as he always was..

It seems as if your focus is on the messenger rather than the message and the one who sent the message. At least from my perspective.
Kat,it is so obvious you have done a lot of studying and have truly searched for answers. When I read your replies, it really does cause me to think and study.Not to just accept the things I have been taught and believed for most of my life. Thanks for sharing your thoughts . Just wanted you to know,I have been blessed by them.
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Old 11-16-2014, 02:37 PM
 
3,482 posts, read 1,287,637 times
Reputation: 239
The greek word proskenau, had 4 different meanings from greek to English
1 worship to God-- 2 obeisance to a king--- plus 2 others.
Jesus = the Messiah--Gods appointed king( Daniel 7:13-15)--obesiance is the correct translating for the Messiah--not worship. Those who listen to Jesus, knows he taught this--John 4:22-24.
A major translating error to fit Catholicism council teachings -giving worship to a king.
Jesus and all his real teachers teach Jesus has a God, his Father.
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:42 PM
 
4,392 posts, read 2,128,882 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
The greek word proskenau, had 4 different meanings from greek to English
1 worship to God-- 2 obeisance to a king--- plus 2 others.
Jesus = the Messiah--Gods appointed king( Daniel 7:13-15)--obesiance is the correct translating for the Messiah--not worship. Those who listen to Jesus, knows he taught this--John 4:22-24.
A major translating error to fit Catholicism council teachings -giving worship to a king.
Jesus and all his real teachers teach Jesus has a God, his Father.
Good point ^ above ^ because the ' heavenly resurrected ascended to heaven ' Jesus himself still believes, according to Revelation 3:12, that he [ Jesus ] has a God over him.

Any thoughts about Jesus, the greater David, at Psalm 89:26 ?
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:44 PM
 
4,392 posts, read 2,128,882 times
Reputation: 327
[quote=SisterKat;12400495]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
I second that
Is Jesus' NEW commandment of John 13 vs 34,35 extra baggage ?________
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