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Old 11-22-2014, 08:14 PM
 
3,894 posts, read 1,811,750 times
Reputation: 282

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You just don't get it. Salvation has nothing to do with what WE do. Salvation is what Christ DID. It is finished. Our task is sanctification under His perfect agape love. THAT requires that we "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. As nate said "it is not about formal worship, but about living the life."
Philippians 2 v 12 B ..... ' do ' work out you own salvation with fear and trembling.

' do ' hold forth .....run not in vain..... Phil. 2 v 16, as to Not end up a castaway - 1st Cor. 9 v 27 B

' do ' Press toward the mark for the prize.....Phil. 3 v 14, or ' do ' run the course to the finish - 2nd Timothy 4 v 7 - 'do ' be faithful to the end - Rev. 2 v 10

' do ' endure to the end - Matthew 24 v 13
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Old 11-22-2014, 09:45 PM
 
Location: US
22,889 posts, read 11,634,664 times
Reputation: 1351
Found this interesting:


ENLIGHTENMENT
Ancient Jewish Accounts of Jesus Christ

The passages from R. J. Hoffmann, Jesus Outside The Gospels,
Prometheus Books


When Jannai the King[1] killed our rabbis, R. Jehoshua ben Perabjah[2] and Jeshu fled to
Alexandria of Egypt. When there was peace, Shimon ben Shetah sent to him. “From [Jerusalem] the
city of holiness to thee Alexandria of Egypt: my husband stays in thy midst and I sit forsaken.” He
came and found himself at a certain inn; they showed him great honor. He said, “How beautiful is
this inn.” Jesus said to him, “Rabbi [the hostess] has narrow eyes!” He said, “Fool, do you pay
attention to such things.” He sent out four hundred trumpets and cast him out. Jesus came before
him many times thereafter, pleading, “Receive me back.” But Jehoshua did not receive him. One day
R. Jehoshua was saying Shema and Jesus came before him. R. Jehoshua signaled that he would receive
Jesus, but Jesus thought that the rabbi repelled him. Then Jesus went out and hung up a title and
worshipped it. R. Jehoshua said to him, “Return [to the teaching of your fathers]” but Jesus
said, “I have learned from you that everyone who sins and causes others to sin is given no chance
to repent.” Thus a teacher had said, Jesus the Nazarene practiced magic and led astray and deceived
Israel. [b. Sanh. 107b]

Rabbi Eliezer said to the sages, “Did not Ben Stada bring spells from Egypt in a cut on his flesh?”
They replied, “He was a fool and one does not prove anything from a fool.” Ben Stada is Ben
Pandira. Rabbi Hisda [a Babylonian teacher of the third century] said, “The husband was Stada, the
paramour was Pandira.” The husband was Pappos ben Jehudah; the mother was Stada. The mother was
Miriam [Mary], the dresser of women’s hair—as we say in Pumbeditha {a Babylonian town where there
was a famous rabbinical college], “Such a one has been false to her husband” [Shaddath
104b]

“He that cuts marks on his flesh.” Rabbi Eliezer condemns, the wise permit. He said to them, “Did
not Yeshu ben Stada [Jesus] learn only in this way?” They said to him “Because of one fool, are we
to destroy all discerning people?”
There shall no evil befall thee.” This means that evil dreams and evil thoughts will not tempt
you7; “neither shall any plague come near thy dwelling” (Ps. 91:10) means that you will not have a
son or disciple who burns his food in public like Jesus of Nazareth [b. Sanh. 103a]
A certain man named Yochanan who was learned in the Law and feared God, a man of the House of
David, was betrothed to a virgin of humble birth named Miriam, the daughter of his widowed
neighbor. This was in Bethlehem, Miriam, however, was seduced by a handsome fellow named Joseph ben
Pondera, who tricked her on a Sabbath eve [in the following manner]: Miriam had thought that
[Pendera] was her espoused husband, Yochanan, and submitting only against her will, was astonished
that her husband –to-be would act in such a way. When [the real] Yochnan returned she chastised him
for his behavior. [Yochnan] suspected Pondera and reported these suspicions to rabbi Shimean ben
Shesh. When it was known that Miriam was pregnant, Yochanan knew that it was not his: but unable to
prove guilt of [Pondera], he fled to Babylon.
Miriam brought forth a son and called him Yehoshua after her mother’s brother. This name in course was shortened to Yeshu. . . .

Yeshu fled to Jerusalem. In the Temple he learned the Ineffable Name. And to thwart the brass dogs
who guarded the place of sacrifice and barked at those who had learned the name, making them
forget, Yeshu wrote the name on a piece of leather and sewed it in the flesh of his thigh. He
gathered around him in Bethlehem a group of young Jews and proclaimed himself the Messiah and Son
of God. He rebuked those who rejected his claim, saying that they were only after their own
greatness and wished to rule in Israel. To confirm his claim, he healed a lame man and a leper by
the power of the Ineffable Name. For this, he was summoned before Queen Shalminon [or Helena], who
found him guilty of acts of sorcery and beguilement.

But Yeshu restored a dead man to life, and the amazed Queen came to believe in him. He went next to
Galilee, where he continued to work miracles and to attract crowds. The sages of Israel then saw
that it was essential that one of their number, Yehuda Iskarioto [Judas], should learn the
Ineffable Name, as Yeshu did, and rival him in signs and wonders. Yehuda and Yeshu came before the
Queen. Yeshu flew in the air, but Yehuda flew higher and caused him to fall to the earth.[3]
Thereupon the Queen condemned Yeshu to death and delivered him up to the Sages of Israel. They
took him to Tiberias [the city] and imprisoned him there. But he had taught the followers that
whatever happened to him had been prepared for the Messiah, the Son of God, from the beginning of
creation—that the prophets had foretold it all. The followers of Yeshu fought against the Sages of
Israel, rescued him and fled to Antioch. From Antioch, Yeshu traveled to Egypt where he learned
spells. But Yehuda Iskarioto had [managed to] infiltrate the ranks of the disciples and to rob
Yeshu of the Name. Hence, Yeshu went a second time to Jerusalem to learn the Name—and this Yehuda
announced in advance to the Sages of Israel: When Yeshu should come to the Temple it was agreed
that Yehuda would bow before him and thus the Sages would be able to distinguish between Yeshu and
his disciples. [This was not easy, as they all dressed in garments of one color.]

And so it happened that the Sages of Israel recognized him and arrested him. They took him out and
hanged him on a cabbage stem. [This was done because Yeshu had adjured all trees by the Ineffable
Name not to receive his body if he was hanged; but he had failed to abjure the cabbage stem.]

The body was taken down while it was still the eve of the Sabbath—in order not to violate the
prohibition. “His body shall not remain there for the night”—and immediately buried. A gardener,
Yehuda, removed the body from the tomb and cast it into a ditch and let the water flow. The
disciples discovering that the body was not in the tomb announced to the Queen that Yeshu had been
restored to life. The Queen believing the story was tempted to put to death the Sages for
having killed the Messiah. Indeed, all of the Jews mourned, wept and fasted, until Rabbi Tanchuma,
with the help of God, found the body in a garden. The Sages of Israel removed it, tied it to the
tail of a horse and paraded it in front of the Queen so that she could see the deception.
The disciples of Yeshu fled [for fear] and mingled among all nations. Among these
followers were twelve “apostles” who sorely distress the Jews; one of these, Shimeon Kepha [Simon
Peter] undertook to separate the disciples of Yeshu from the Jews and to give [the former] laws of
their own. . . .

[1] Alexander Jannaeus who reigned from 104 to 78 BC. Several scholars have written that Jesus
legend could refer back to the execution of the Essene teacher during the reign of Jannaeus, and I
find this suggest given the totality of evidence more reasonable than the Gospel account. See
skeptically.org/newtestament/ id4.html.
[2] A leading Pharisee of the time. The killing of rabbis was an historical event. This account of
Jesus flee
to Egypt could be a source for Matthew and Luke’s account of the flight to Egypt to avoid the angry
king—
only theirs was move forward a century.
[3] This is exactly the tale told by Christians of the confrontation between Paul and Simon Magnus
the Magician (see Peter vs. Simon Magnus continued plus commentary & id3 (among the most entertaining of
biblical tales).
http://j
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Old 11-24-2014, 12:15 PM
 
2,677 posts, read 976,198 times
Reputation: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Levi View Post
Do you have any faith in Jesus Christ?

Yes or no?
No matter how much one thinks they have--it needs to be excercised regularly.
Yes I have faith in Jesus.
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:25 PM
 
5,526 posts, read 1,718,040 times
Reputation: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Found this interesting:


ENLIGHTENMENT
Ancient Jewish Accounts of Jesus Christ

The passages from R. J. Hoffmann, Jesus Outside The Gospels,
Prometheus Books


When Jannai the King[1] killed our rabbis, R. Jehoshua ben Perabjah[2] and Jeshu fled to
Alexandria of Egypt. When there was peace, Shimon ben Shetah sent to him. “From [Jerusalem] the
city of holiness to thee Alexandria of Egypt: my husband stays in thy midst and I sit forsaken.” He
came and found himself at a certain inn; they showed him great honor. He said, “How beautiful is
this inn.” Jesus said to him, “Rabbi [the hostess] has narrow eyes!” He said, “Fool, do you pay
attention to such things.” He sent out four hundred trumpets and cast him out. Jesus came before
him many times thereafter, pleading, “Receive me back.” But Jehoshua did not receive him. One day
R. Jehoshua was saying Shema and Jesus came before him. R. Jehoshua signaled that he would receive
Jesus, but Jesus thought that the rabbi repelled him. Then Jesus went out and hung up a title and
worshipped it. R. Jehoshua said to him, “Return [to the teaching of your fathers]” but Jesus
said, “I have learned from you that everyone who sins and causes others to sin is given no chance
to repent.” Thus a teacher had said, Jesus the Nazarene practiced magic and led astray and deceived
Israel. [b. Sanh. 107b]

Rabbi Eliezer said to the sages, “Did not Ben Stada bring spells from Egypt in a cut on his flesh?”
They replied, “He was a fool and one does not prove anything from a fool.” Ben Stada is Ben
Pandira. Rabbi Hisda [a Babylonian teacher of the third century] said, “The husband was Stada, the
paramour was Pandira.” The husband was Pappos ben Jehudah; the mother was Stada. The mother was
Miriam [Mary], the dresser of women’s hair—as we say in Pumbeditha {a Babylonian town where there
was a famous rabbinical college], “Such a one has been false to her husband” [Shaddath
104b]

“He that cuts marks on his flesh.” Rabbi Eliezer condemns, the wise permit. He said to them, “Did
not Yeshu ben Stada [Jesus] learn only in this way?” They said to him “Because of one fool, are we
to destroy all discerning people?”
There shall no evil befall thee.” This means that evil dreams and evil thoughts will not tempt
you7; “neither shall any plague come near thy dwelling” (Ps. 91:10) means that you will not have a
son or disciple who burns his food in public like Jesus of Nazareth [b. Sanh. 103a]
A certain man named Yochanan who was learned in the Law and feared God, a man of the House of
David, was betrothed to a virgin of humble birth named Miriam, the daughter of his widowed
neighbor. This was in Bethlehem, Miriam, however, was seduced by a handsome fellow named Joseph ben
Pondera, who tricked her on a Sabbath eve [in the following manner]: Miriam had thought that
[Pendera] was her espoused husband, Yochanan, and submitting only against her will, was astonished
that her husband –to-be would act in such a way. When [the real] Yochnan returned she chastised him
for his behavior. [Yochnan] suspected Pondera and reported these suspicions to rabbi Shimean ben
Shesh. When it was known that Miriam was pregnant, Yochanan knew that it was not his: but unable to
prove guilt of [Pondera], he fled to Babylon.
Miriam brought forth a son and called him Yehoshua after her mother’s brother. This name in course was shortened to Yeshu. . . .

Yeshu fled to Jerusalem. In the Temple he learned the Ineffable Name. And to thwart the brass dogs
who guarded the place of sacrifice and barked at those who had learned the name, making them
forget, Yeshu wrote the name on a piece of leather and sewed it in the flesh of his thigh. He
gathered around him in Bethlehem a group of young Jews and proclaimed himself the Messiah and Son
of God. He rebuked those who rejected his claim, saying that they were only after their own
greatness and wished to rule in Israel. To confirm his claim, he healed a lame man and a leper by
the power of the Ineffable Name. For this, he was summoned before Queen Shalminon [or Helena], who
found him guilty of acts of sorcery and beguilement.

But Yeshu restored a dead man to life, and the amazed Queen came to believe in him. He went next to
Galilee, where he continued to work miracles and to attract crowds. The sages of Israel then saw
that it was essential that one of their number, Yehuda Iskarioto [Judas], should learn the
Ineffable Name, as Yeshu did, and rival him in signs and wonders. Yehuda and Yeshu came before the
Queen. Yeshu flew in the air, but Yehuda flew higher and caused him to fall to the earth.[3]
Thereupon the Queen condemned Yeshu to death and delivered him up to the Sages of Israel. They
took him to Tiberias [the city] and imprisoned him there. But he had taught the followers that
whatever happened to him had been prepared for the Messiah, the Son of God, from the beginning of
creation—that the prophets had foretold it all. The followers of Yeshu fought against the Sages of
Israel, rescued him and fled to Antioch. From Antioch, Yeshu traveled to Egypt where he learned
spells. But Yehuda Iskarioto had [managed to] infiltrate the ranks of the disciples and to rob
Yeshu of the Name. Hence, Yeshu went a second time to Jerusalem to learn the Name—and this Yehuda
announced in advance to the Sages of Israel: When Yeshu should come to the Temple it was agreed
that Yehuda would bow before him and thus the Sages would be able to distinguish between Yeshu and
his disciples. [This was not easy, as they all dressed in garments of one color.]

And so it happened that the Sages of Israel recognized him and arrested him. They took him out and
hanged him on a cabbage stem. [This was done because Yeshu had adjured all trees by the Ineffable
Name not to receive his body if he was hanged; but he had failed to abjure the cabbage stem.]

The body was taken down while it was still the eve of the Sabbath—in order not to violate the
prohibition. “His body shall not remain there for the night”—and immediately buried. A gardener,
Yehuda, removed the body from the tomb and cast it into a ditch and let the water flow. The
disciples discovering that the body was not in the tomb announced to the Queen that Yeshu had been
restored to life. The Queen believing the story was tempted to put to death the Sages for
having killed the Messiah. Indeed, all of the Jews mourned, wept and fasted, until Rabbi Tanchuma,
with the help of God, found the body in a garden. The Sages of Israel removed it, tied it to the
tail of a horse and paraded it in front of the Queen so that she could see the deception.
The disciples of Yeshu fled [for fear] and mingled among all nations. Among these
followers were twelve “apostles” who sorely distress the Jews; one of these, Shimeon Kepha [Simon
Peter] undertook to separate the disciples of Yeshu from the Jews and to give [the former] laws of
their own. . . .

[1] Alexander Jannaeus who reigned from 104 to 78 BC. Several scholars have written that Jesus
legend could refer back to the execution of the Essene teacher during the reign of Jannaeus, and I
find this suggest given the totality of evidence more reasonable than the Gospel account. See
skeptically.org/newtestament/ id4.html.
[2] A leading Pharisee of the time. The killing of rabbis was an historical event. This account of
Jesus flee
to Egypt could be a source for Matthew and Luke’s account of the flight to Egypt to avoid the angry
king—
only theirs was move forward a century.
[3] This is exactly the tale told by Christians of the confrontation between Paul and Simon Magnus
the Magician (see Peter vs. Simon Magnus continued plus commentary & id3 (among the most entertaining of
biblical tales).
http://j
My that was an eloquent story. It reminded me of the Eragon book series. And how Galbotorix learned the ineffable name of magic. Thus giving him power to nullify any users magic. Man that ending bombed.
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