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Old 12-23-2009, 04:07 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,744,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Yep - I knew that was coming (predictable). Some Christians LOVE to separate love of God from love of man.

How can you love God whom you have not seen if you don't man whom you have seen?

So now - part one (love God) supposedly means to honor orthodox doctrine and try and expose evil witches and goblins and demons and devils and seducing spirits (BTW - the 'seduction' was the Judaizers trying to draw the freed ones back into religious creeds).

I have laid out the bread crumbs but can't take you any further DS. God bless you - I know you are trying to do 'right'.
The commandment has two parts, not one. You are correct -- they CANNOT be severed. YOU however severed them by ignoring the first part, and now you appear to be backpedaling.

Moreover, the nuns always taught me that we HAVE seen God insofar as we see Him in each other--not literally of course, but in a very real way nonetheless. That would be called the sacramental view of the world.

Furthermore I don't know where you got the idea I was looking for you to "take" me anywhere, firstborn888. I'm quite happy where I am, thank you.

.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
You have left out Part One of the commandment and in doing so, you appear to be advocating a One World Religion based solely on Part Two, the Golden Rule--a point on which all the major world religions agree--similar to what is advocated by Karen Armstrong.

Deception, very attractively packaged.
He left out nothing. Decent human beings listen to the Holy Spirit within and Know when something is not right. You believe in two beings Satan and God . . . ONE of whom is egotistical, jealous of Adam, hateful, evil, vengeful, rebellious and wants all the attention instead of God. The other (as shown and taught by Jesus) is Love. When looking for corruption and deceit in doctrine perpetrated over the millennia by appealing to our human frailties and flawed emotions and character . . . how is it you accept descriptions of God that match the characteristics of Satan and reject those of Jesus? Decent people with good hearts and souls recognize this idiocy and are turning to the TRUE Jesus and God that what is "written in our hearts" tells us MUST be true. Search your motivations and seek the counsel of God, DreamingSpires. Recognizing carnality is not your forte.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
He left out nothing. Decent human beings listen to the Holy Spirit within and Know when something is not right. You believe in two beings Satan and God . . . ONE of whom is egotistical, jealous of Adam, hateful, evil, vengeful, rebellious and wants all the attention instead of God. The other (as shown and taught by Jesus) is Love. When looking for corruption and deceit in doctrine perpetrated over the millennia by appealing to our human frailties and flawed emotions and character . . . how is it you accept descriptions of God that match the characteristics of Satan and reject those of Jesus? Decent people with good hearts and souls recognize this idiocy and are turning to the TRUE Jesus and God that what is "written in our hearts" tells us MUST be true. Search your motivations and seek the counsel of God, DreamingSpires. Recognizing carnality is not your forte.

MysticPhD,

The Holy Spirit is not "within" like your liver or your lungs or your brain or your imagination is "within"-- the Holy Spirit is part of the Triune God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Like I said on another thread, your statements resemble that of Alice Bailey and your views appear to be that of a Theosophist. "Decent people" they are not (except perhaps Yeats, but even that is open to debate).
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
MysticPhD,

The Holy Spirit is not "within" like your liver or your lungs or your brain or your imagination is "within"-- the Holy Spirit is part of the Triune God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Notice all the physical references . . . THAT is carnal thinking. We are spiritual beings and God's Holy Spirit is accessible to our spirit within (consciousness). Come out of your carnality, DreamingSpires and feel the love of God and the joy it brings to your soul.
Quote:
Like I said on another thread, your statements resemble that of Alice Bailey and your views appear to be that of a Theosophist. "Decent people" they are not (except perhaps Yeats, but even that is open to debate).
I have no familiarity with this Bailey person . . . but your superstitious fear (the killer of love) of her and her ilk seems to be blinding you to the truth being discovered by your peers.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Notice all the physical references . . . THAT is carnal thinking. We are spiritual beings and God's Holy Spirit is accessible to our spirit within (consciousness). Come out of your carnality, DreamingSpires and feel the love of God and the joy it brings to your soul.I have no familiarity with this Bailey person . . . but your superstitious fear (the killer of love) of her and her ilk seems to be blinding you to the truth being discovered by your peers.

Methinks you protest too much. With your claims about being widely read in both the Eastern and Western traditions your ignorance of Alice Bailey really beggars belief. Are you familiar with Madame Blavatsky and the Theosophists?
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
There is a misconception among Christians that the devil wants us to worship Him, that's not true, the devil is not dumb He knows that could not happen directly, He couldn't care if we believe in him in fact he prefers we didn't. His intention is for mankind to take its attention off God and the gospel.
He sure wanted Jesus to fall down and worship him, and promised Jesus everything he had, if Jesus would do it.

Mat 4:9
Luk 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
Luk 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.


Since he is the prince of this world, I think a lot of people worship him indirectly by accepting the glory of this "age", while they live in it, for selling out fidelity to the One True God.
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:32 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
I will say about this the same as to DS - I have no doubt you have a good heart toward humankind but yet you fall prey to the thinking that what needs to be "fixed" is a proper understanding of intangible spiritual truths.

If you dig to the foundation - what Jesus pushed was that the leaders of God's "chosen" were missing the boat - they searched the scriptures THINKING that was the key to eternal life. When eternal life (Jesus' words) came along and said that the key to eternal life was to obey ONE SIMPLE REAL PRACTICAL TRUTH.

Treat everyone else as you yourself want to be treated. This IS the law and the prophets.
That would be the key to the abundant life: not to eternal life.

Jesus is the Truth and by believing in Him, we have eternal life.

Loving others is the abundant life by living as His by the grace of God.

1 John 3: 22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Quote:
Am I making sense to any orthodox people here? My point is not just to be critical but to move forward a common interest we all have.
I'm not orthodox. I'm not even Catholic. I'm just a believer in Jesus Christ as my Saviour and Good Shepherd.
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
The commandment has two parts, not one. You are correct -- they CANNOT be severed. YOU however severed them by ignoring the first part, and now you appear to be backpedaling.
Yes, backpedaling over 2000 years of tradition that has negated very simple - easy to understand instructions. Funny how anyone can understand "Love your neighbor as yourself". Tends to take the ambiguity out of what righteous behavior is. What fundamentalists tend to do is use the "love God" clause to insert their favorite hate certain people doctrine/agenda.

Freddie Phelps is an extreme (but good) example of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
Moreover, the nuns always taught me that we HAVE seen God insofar as we see Him in each other--not literally of course, but in a very real way nonetheless. That would be called the sacramental view of the world.
Excellent. Listen to your teachers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
Furthermore I don't know where you got the idea I was looking for you to "take" me anywhere, firstborn888. I'm quite happy where I am, thank you.
I have no such idea but just as you posted from a non-request to try and help humanity (which would include me) I responded with my attempt to help humanity which, since we were able to establish that you are ARE indeed in physical (AKA: carnal) form, would include you.

I am well aware of the mindset you espouse about all this. I actually fell into that trap (somewhat) in times past but, praise the Lord, I saw the light.
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,277,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
That would be the key to the abundant life: not to eternal life.
17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?" 18 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 19 "You know the commandments".

Jesus lists a few and then added one He was SURE would trip this rich guy up (it did).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Jesus is the Truth and by believing in Him, we have eternal life.
Now you are doing exactly what I warned against. You take a simple practical concept and turn it into an ethereal/unprovable thing which happens in the privacy of your heart. Nothing wrong with that - but the PROOF of knowing God (which incidentally IS eternal life) is your fruit of loving people. "This is eternal life that they may know you" and "He who loves is born of God and knows God".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post

Loving others is the abundant life by living as His by the grace of God.
It is also a sign that you know God and have eternal life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
1 John 3: 22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
"This is my commandment that you love one another"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
I'm not orthodox. I'm not even Catholic. I'm just a believer in Jesus Christ as my Saviour and Good Shepherd.
But you (apparently) have a fundamentalist/bible literalist approach to spiritual things which I call "orthodoxy" since it puts dogma of terms above reality of spirit.

Been there, done that too. It is often a necessary step on to greater things (just ask Billy Graham).
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:21 PM
 
34,689 posts, read 22,503,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
Methinks you protest too much. With your claims about being widely read in both the Eastern and Western traditions your ignorance of Alice Bailey really beggars belief. Are you familiar with Madame Blavatsky and the Theosophists?
Yes . . . but I am not omniscient, DreamingSpires . . . even though I know I can seem so.
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