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Old 01-01-2010, 04:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Sure it did, but what is a yoem?

It can mean, day, season, time, and period. Depending on the context. Now don't get me wrong, I believe the creation story is a pattern for the covenantal sabbath week, this is in stone. This I do not deny one bit.

Before 1830, and before Ellen G White, the majority of Christians believed the earth to be very old, the flood was local, and the six "day" pattern, was beyond the day interpretation. Just some thoughts.
Yes I know including one of my heroes Charlse Spurgeon but he and the others were wrong. I doubt they really thought it all out nor could they foresee the ramifications we see today.

"yom" in Hebrew (can mean a standard 24 hours-one day and one night) can mean a longer period of time for e.g. if I say, back in my grandfather's "day" but "day" is nowwhere near a 1,000,000 years let alone a thousand years. Furthermore the bible actually places a number before each "yom" in Genesis "1 yom" "2 yom"

(Genesis 1:5–2:2)
5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the................

If the flood was local and Noah had a hundred years to build the ark then why build it? why didn't he and the animals just pick up and move? afterall he had a hundred years, many miles can be covered in that space of time.
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Old 01-01-2010, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post

(Genesis 1:5–2:2)
5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the................

If the flood was local and Noah had a hundred years to build the ark then why build it? why didn't he and the animals just pick up and move? afterall he had a hundred years, many miles can be covered in that space of time.
Faith? Maybe because God told him so? Remember, back then, they had no idea about a round earth. Just some things to think about.
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Old 01-01-2010, 04:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Faith? Maybe because God told him so? Remember, back then, they had no idea about a round earth. Just some things to think about.
What does faith have to do with it? why would God tell him to build an ark if all he had to do was leave the disaster zone? furthermore Spurgeon and others were not privy to the knowledge that in almost every culture in the world today, there is a story of a global flood.

Trust me Jews had a better idea of earth in orbit from the bible than many 15, 16 century scientist did.

Job 26:7
He it is Who spreads out the northern skies over emptiness and hangs the earth upon or over nothing

Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth.

Noah was closer to the creation than we were, this was not a dumb, ignorant man. Adam named all the species of animals in a day.
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Fundy,

I understand your point, as I was a YEC for many, many years, but then, of course, in light of the scriptures, I had to question the nature of the flood and the fact that it could be local.

Let's take the Nephilim for example, why do you see them prior flood and after flood in Genesis 6 and Numbers 13?

Wasn't everyone destroyed except for Noah and his family?
How did the Nephilim survive the flood?
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Fundy,

I understand your point, as I was a YEC for many, many years, but then, of course, in light of the scriptures, I had to question the nature of the flood and the fact that it could be local.

Let's take the Nephilim for example, why do you see them prior flood and after flood in Genesis 6 and Numbers 13?

Wasn't everyone destroyed except for Noah and his family?
How did the Nephilim survive the flood?
I was an old earther evolution myself till I started really studying the bible infact most of my family believes as you do.

Nephlim are very fascinating! I see no record of where the nephlim survived the flood infact evidence points that the flood was sent because of the nephlims.
Numbers 13 is not indicating "nephlim" as the offspring of the union between the sons of God and daughters of men. "nephlim" means to fall, they fell on others in a sense these are men who overpowering others.

(Genesis 6:4-8)
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

Notice the timing right after the verse where the nephlims were introduced that God was grieved He made man.

The demons may have known of the coming messiah and tried to thwart His coming by polluting the human blood line? who knows but we do know God was exteremely angry with those particular demons and He punished them in such a manner that no demon since has tried to produce other nephlims. I believe those demons are bound in the abyss never to be free.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-01-2010 at 05:33 PM..
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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And secondly:

A Cubit length of fifteen was all that rose in height of the waters, which is not very high at all.
They covered the mountains, but were these really high, snow capped mountains, or were they just "hills" no higher than twenty feet or so?

You have to understand something here Fundy, out of all the miracles recorded in scripture, and the flood was definitley a miracle which was predicted by God Himself, that came to pass, but in order to feed all these animals in the ark, which had a length no more than a battleship, and to carry all the animals of the world in it, it had to be much bigger and much larger even then to carry these anumals dietary needs.

Erets (#776 in Strong's), the Hebrew word that translated "earth" throughout the flood account and it does not require a world-wide meaning. This word translated "country" (140 times) and "land" (1,476 times) in the Bible. Many of them are often of limited land areas.

For example, the word is used concerning Abraham. "Get out of thy country [erets]...unto a land[erets] that I will shew thee" (Gen. 12:1). Or another one, "Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country [erets], and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur" (Gen. 20:1).

Next, how about the olive leaf, a tree that takes dry land, not soiled from many, many days of water logged soil, it would be impossible for that tree to even come close to germination.

Why, then, should any insist that the flood covering "the face of the whole earth [erets] must mean a universal flood?

Josephus, quoted from Nicolaus of Damascus: "There is a great mountain in Armenia...upon which it is reported that many who fled at the time of the Deluge were saved; and that one who was carried in the ark came on shore upon the top of it; and that the remains of the timber were a great while preserved. This might be the man about whom Moses the legislator of the Jews wrote."

Josephus goes on to say:

"Now the sons of Noah were three...these first of all descended from the mountains into the plains, and fixed their habitation there; and PERSUADED OTHERS WHO WERE GREATLY AFRAID OF THE LOWER GROUNDS ON ACCOUNT OF THE FLOOD, and so were very loth to come down from the higher places, to venture to follow their examples. Now the plain in which they first dwelt was called Shinar."

Some things to think about.
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Fundy,

Numbers 13:33: "There also we saw the nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the NEPHILIM); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."

This is post flood.
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:33 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Sure it did, but what is a yoem?

It can mean, day, season, time, and period. Depending on the context. Now don't get me wrong, I believe the creation story is a pattern for the covenantal sabbath week, this is in stone. This I do not deny one bit.

Before 1830, and before Ellen G White, the majority of Christians believed the earth to be very old, the flood was local, and the six "day" pattern, was beyond the day interpretation. Just some thoughts.
Do we only have a yoem to go on for the meaning of God's words?

Genesis 1:5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1: 8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Genesis 1:13And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Genesis 1:19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Genesis 1:23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Genesis 1: 31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So can there be a morning and an evening for a season? No. Then yoem is being described as a day as we know it.

So now comes the puzzle of the age of the earth. When God created Adam, he was a full grown man; not a baby. When God spoke for the light to govern the earth by day and by night, He had the source of the light govern the earth that day and that night, as the gap that it took light to travel was filled by that light to be governing the earth that day and night. We see how creation requires maturity for it to be set up to run, but what point would there be for an age to the earth?

How does one measure the age of the earth? Can it really be measured?

No. But there are indirect processes that can measure the age of the earth like how the moon is slowly moving away from the earth at a certain rate. Look into that and other indicators in nature for a young earth.

We may not see or understand everything in nature, but God has given His word to us to guide us by against the deceptions in the world as well as in the churches.
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Fundy,

Numbers 13:33: "There also we saw the nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the NEPHILIM); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."

This is post flood.

Numbers 13 is not indicating "nephlim" as the offspring of the union between the sons of God and daughters of men. "nephlim" is from a root meaning "to fall", they fell on others in a sense these are men who overpower others. It was an exaggeration by comparing these huge men to those giants conceived through an unnatural union prior to the flood.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-01-2010 at 05:57 PM..
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:56 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 11,820,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
And secondly:

A Cubit length of fifteen was all that rose in height of the waters, which is not very high at all.
They covered the mountains, but were these really high, snow capped mountains, or were they just "hills" no higher than twenty feet or so?

You have to understand something here Fundy, out of all the miracles recorded in scripture, and the flood was definitley a miracle which was predicted by God Himself, that came to pass, but in order to feed all these animals in the ark.............
Really arguments can be made either, or. I look at scripture to give me truth and in scripture the flood is global and the planet was created in 6 days.
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