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Old 12-28-2009, 10:17 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,441,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allen antrim View Post
Human thought will continually change as it is dialectical. Evolution is not the only theory to have come along and it won't be the last. Man's instruments will become sharper (or at least different) and his discourse will change-both will change how he interprets the world. If christianity ties itself to this, when it crashes or is modified then christianity will be in the collateral damage (it already is, by the way from other attachments). The creation account is beyond these theories and is in a different category, this is to set it outside from sinking with theory.
Well, the Bible has something to say about putting confidence in the men behind the science.

2 Timothy 3:12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

So it goes to point of the OP and the call for believers to continue in the scriptures for the truth in God's words.
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Old 12-28-2009, 02:06 PM
 
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Evolution is real.

Lets say you are in a room with an elephant.. and you are scared of elephants. Does putting your hands over your eyes make the elephant go away?
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Old 12-28-2009, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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Both science and Genesis are lacking in an adequate description of creation.

But I firmly believe that one day they will agree with each other.

Truth is truth.
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Old 12-28-2009, 04:13 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
The quoted verse you had responded to.

Romans 4:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned...

Of course, you could argue that on reading further that it was just specifying man, but why say.. "and so.."?

If we look elsewhere....

Romans 8:18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

So in light of these scriptures, coming from the same book, no less, we see the meaning of Romans 4:12 in that sin entered the world and death by sin came on all creation.
I'm not trying to fault you as you are certainly entitled to your own particular perspective. However, I don't find this portion of scripture nor your perspective to be convincing with respect to whether or not it was possible for death of creatures to precede the fall. It all strikes me as a good bit of a stretch and a read-between-the-lines manner of engaging in Biblical hermeneutics.

John Calvin once advised that we should abstain from attempting to form conclusions beyond those things in scripture that are clearly revealed. I think this still qualifies as good advice.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:12 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,441,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
I'm not trying to fault you as you are certainly entitled to your own particular perspective. However, I don't find this portion of scripture nor your perspective to be convincing with respect to whether or not it was possible for death of creatures to precede the fall. It all strikes me as a good bit of a stretch and a read-between-the-lines manner of engaging in Biblical hermeneutics.

John Calvin once advised that we should abstain from attempting to form conclusions beyond those things in scripture that are clearly revealed. I think this still qualifies as good advice.
I would ignore John Calvin's advise and stick with the promise from God that all those that seek, shall find.

So the advise from God is to ask the Lord for wisdom in understanding His words since wisdom comes from the Lord.

If Jesus refers to the scriptures and in them holds truth to expose the works of darkness by the light of scriptures, then I shall trust Jesus as My Good Shepherd since He did not go and die on the cross, rise from teh dead, and ascended to Heaven just to leave us alone in our musings and understandings in regards to Him.

Believers have a reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ and that active relationship comes with answers we seek as we continue to grow in our relationship with Him in the knowledge of Him so that our love may abound yet more and more.

So ask Jesus for the answers in regards to the evolution theory in what the Bible says about it as Jesus would refer to the scriptures over the words of man.

How many times must man lie in the government, in the schools, in the businesses, and in science for honest seekers to be reserve towards them in order to consider that if God did exist and wants to get us to know Him personally, that He would provide the answers we seek through the scriptures for they were authoritative for Jesus Christ to speak the truth from.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:35 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,441,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
Evolution is real.

Lets say you are in a room with an elephant.. and you are scared of elephants. Does putting your hands over your eyes make the elephant go away?
Interesting analogy in according to your opinion, but let us apply that towards your belief.

If a cow goes into the sea water where the waves knocks it over, what do you think you are going to see? The cow learning to stay out of the water.

Okay then. Without covering your eyes or forgetting about that scenario, how can a cow in according to the evolution theory... change into a whale?

Do you not find it incredulous moreso when no evolutionist is forcing cows to stand in the ocean waters to cause this evolutionary process to happen again?

"But it would take millions of years before...."'s statement can be seen as covering everybody's eyes from seeing that elephant.

Let us fast forward the process then.

Do you not find it lacking courage when they can test flies with radiation to prove their "evolutionary process" can be beneficial, but yet no man is willingly to volunteer for the advancement of the human race by subjecting himself to bombardments of radiation?

That little problem of damaging chromosomes for the "species" to reproduce. Big elephant.

See... to me, that is the evolutionist covering their eyes with that big elephant in the room. It is nothing more but a theory... a fad in science much like Star Trek is in the media. They may wave the wand of time, but that is no different than believing in God creating everything by speaking it into existence to be set up to run so that life can exist and to cohabit on our world, but the only difference betwee the two here is... it takes more faith to believe in the evolution theory than it does for God to create everything.

The magic wand of time is the same thing as covering the eyes of everyone from seeing the big elephant in the room because no one can really prove the evolution theory.

That is my opinion based on your standard of judgment which is an opinion as well.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:47 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 7,714,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Interesting analogy in according to your opinion, but let us apply that towards your belief.

If a cow goes into the sea water where the waves knocks it over, what do you think you are going to see? The cow learning to stay out of the water.

Okay then. Without covering your eyes or forgetting about that scenario, how can a cow in according to the evolution theory... change into a whale?

Do you not find it incredulous moreso when no evolutionist is forcing cows to stand in the ocean waters to cause this evolutionary process to happen again?

"But it would take millions of years before...."'s statement can be seen as covering everybody's eyes from seeing that elephant.

Let us fast forward the process then.

Do you not find it lacking courage when they can test flies with radiation to prove their "evolutionary process" can be beneficial, but yet no man is willingly to volunteer for the advancement of the human race by subjecting himself to bombardments of radiation?

That little problem of damaging chromosomes for the "species" to reproduce. Big elephant.

See... to me, that is the evolutionist covering their eyes with that big elephant in the room. It is nothing more but a theory... a fad in science much like Star Trek is in the media. They may wave the wand of time, but that is no different than believing in God creating everything by speaking it into existence to be set up to run so that life can exist and to cohabit on our world, but the only difference betwee the two here is... it takes more faith to believe in the evolution theory than it does for God to create everything.

The magic wand of time is the same thing as covering the eyes of everyone from seeing the big elephant in the room because no one can really prove the evolution theory.

That is my opinion based on your standard of judgment which is an opinion as well.
Sorry Tex.. evolution is a fact. How it happens is a theory. Pick up a book. You can call it the "magic wand of time" all you want.. you can discount it because you don't understand it. It makes no difference to anyone. I truly don't care if you choose to be uneducated on the subject. However, your unbelief in it changes nothing concerning evolution (thus you have your hands.. over your eyes for fear of the big elephant).
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:48 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,441,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
Both science and Genesis are lacking in an adequate description of creation.

But I firmly believe that one day they will agree with each other.

Truth is truth.
Jesus is the truth and the world will persecute by withholding the truth in unrighteousness so as to keep the world in darkness.

They are already fighting to keep science from being objective by keeping Intelligent Design out of the science and out of the schools.

One has to ask themselves why public schools and science are promoting the evolution theory when it has NOT been proven yet in the first place. Students are not equipped with scientific means to pursue that academic study and so all it really serves is to destabalize society into thinking that there is no God and no consequences and no purpose for life other than surviving in a dog eat dog world. So in other words, it serves the devil.

So I do not believe that science will ever get it right especially when creationism and Intelligent Design are not even going to be considered as a hypothesis to prove or to disprove as bigotry is present within the science falsely so called.

An athiest scientist would fathom the possibility that aliens came to earth to terraform and to populate our planet with species derived from their superior technology, but to even consider the idea that God did it... was out the door.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:55 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,441,863 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
Sorry Tex.. evolution is a fact. How it happens is a theory. Pick up a book. You can call it the "magic wand of time" all you want.. you can discount it because you don't understand it. It makes no difference to anyone. I truly don't care if you choose to be uneducated on the subject. However, your unbelief in it changes nothing concerning evolution (thus you have your hands.. over your eyes for fear of the big elephant).
I've been educated enough to know propaganda when I see one.

All you have to do is look for the words to understand how it is presented like.. "maybe".. "possibly".. "if"... are all terms for stating a speculation, and it is often missed when they state a fact based on that speculation, but I thank the Lord that I did not miss it. I do know how to read.

I've seen the "elephant", and it is pink in the eyes of the evolutionists'.

And my name is not "Tex".
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:55 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 7,714,496 times
Reputation: 1457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Jesus is the truth and the world will persecute by withholding the truth in unrighteousness so as to keep the world in darkness.

They are already fighting to keep science from being objective by keeping Intelligent Design out of the science and out of the schools.

One has to ask themselves why public schools and science are promoting the evolution theory when it has NOT been proven yet in the first place. Students are not equipped with scientific means to pursue that academic study and so all it really serves is to destabalize society into thinking that there is no God and no consequences and no purpose for life other than surviving in a dog eat dog world. So in other words, it serves the devil.

So I do not believe that science will ever get it right especially when creationism and Intelligent Design are not even going to be considered as a hypothesis to prove or to disprove as bigotry is present within the science falsely so called.

An athiest scientist would fathom the possibility that aliens came to earth to terraform and to populate our planet with species derived from their superior technology, but to even consider the idea that God did it... was out the door.
enjoy..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiNGK3y5Ypg

I truly hope you watch the whole thing..
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