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Old 12-30-2009, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 4,952,769 times
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Evolutionists,

Darwin predicted geologists would find a host of missing links which would construct a great chain of life from the earliest organisms to mankind. Darwin explains that his is a real problem for his view a little more than a decade after the initial release of "Origin of Species".

He noted this problem:

Why is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely graduated organic chain: and this is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged against the theory?

The popular phrase which sums up Darwin's view is "amoeba to man" evolution. The problem for Darwin's theory is that geologists haven't found the many missing links he predicted would be found. More than a hundred years of geological research has failed to confirm his theory.

Stephen Gould, the prominent evolutionary biologist, emphasizes the problem for Darwin's evolution here:

The absence of fossil evidence from intermediary stages between major and minor transitions in organic design, indeed our inability, even in our imagination, to construct functional intermediates in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for gradualistic accounts of evolution.

In order to explain this embarrassing reality, evolutionists have developed a new theory of biological evolution called "punctuated equilibrium". This theory contends that species remain relatively unchanged for long periods of time. When substantial changes between the species do occur, they happen very fast, so fast we are left with virtually no fossil documentation in the geological record. This development is an admission that the fossil record shows nothing about the origin of species except when the species were created. Geology continues to provide a heavy and reasonable argument against Darwin's biological evolution.

What Darwin thought were the earliest and simplest forms of life involved remarkable complexity. Darwin could never have dreamed that the most basic living organisms are intricate systems involve perfectly functional components. This complexity cannot be explained by gradual development over time, because all the components must be present and perfectly functional for these organisms to have existed at all. Many scientists today, are in fact developing a formidable case that even the most basic life forms involve "irreducible complexity". This implies that incremental biological evolution over time, as Darwin and evolutionists conceive(d) it, is simply impossible.

The age of the earth is irrelevant to the "irreducible complexity" argument for "intelligent design", and one can accept an earth is millions or even billions years old and still reject biological evolution. Many scientists today do, and continue to do so.

Creationism does not hinge on the age of our universe.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
29,395 posts, read 28,381,811 times
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So you are going mining for quotes are you?...What, do you have no argument and so rely on quotes out of context?

Quote:
"The absence of fossil evidence for intermediary stages between major transitions in organic design, indeed our inability, even in our imagination, to construct functional intermediates in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for gradualist accounts of evolution." (Gould, Stephen J., 'Is a new and general theory of evolution emerging?' Paleobiology, vol 6(1), January 1980, p. 127)
This is a rather unspectacularly predictable mined quote, as everyone who has had a few hours exposure to Gould's writings on evolution can instantly see that he's arguing against gradualism and probably in favor of punctuated equilibrium, a theory that he co-originated with Eldredge in 1972. Contrary to possible first impressions of the uninformed, Gould is presenting a problem FOR gradualist evolution, and countering WITH solutions to this apparent "problem" later in the paragraph.

And, in typical quote-mining style, this sentence has been taken out of its natural ecosystem. In this section of the paper, Gould is outlining the challenge to gradualist models of macroevolution in three loosely united themes. He is not challenging evolution itself nor is he discounting the vast wealth of fossil data that already exists.

Therefore, someone unfamiliar with Gould who would read the quote alone, above, who does not understand Gould's argument in the paper nor his scientific history will not realize he's just questioning gradualism as a theory of evolutionary change, and not realize he's simultaneously proposing a better idea of evolutionary change to fit the observed data.

I won't bother addressing the rest of your post, as they are not your words or thoughts, but simply something you probably mined off one apologetic site or another, and dishonest as quote mining always is.
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Old 12-30-2009, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 4,952,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post

Gould's writings on evolution can instantly see that he's arguing against gradualism and probably in favor of punctuated equilibrium, a theory that he co-originated with Eldredge in 1972. Contrary to possible first impressions of the uninformed, Gould is presenting a problem FOR gradualist evolution, and countering WITH solutions to this apparent "problem" later in the paragraph.
That was the point of the post, to show that Gould argued against it, and be in favor of another "made up" theory. Your response was typical of an Evolutionist that has trouble comprehending as he scrambles to provide a "feeble and accusatory" comeback to an educated and acclimated creationist in the evolutionary fairy tailed theory.

Quote:
In this section of the paper, Gould is outlining the challenge to gradualist models of macroevolution in three loosely united themes. He is not challenging evolution itself nor is he discounting the vast wealth of fossil data that already exists.
Why would I present an evolutionist contradicting his own paradigm?
I was merely pointing out that there are pronblems within the theory itself and he was aware of it. Let's read it again, and if you would like to counter it, with a proper defense, then by any means, go right ahead, but accusations and attacks are typical of someone that cannot provide an ample response. Please, be my guest:

The absence of fossil evidence from intermediary stages between major and minor transitions in organic design, indeed our inability, even in our imagination, to construct functional intermediates in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for gradualistic accounts of evolution.

He is not discounting the theory, just merely observing the problems that lie within it, but I am sure you are already aware of that aren't you now.

Quote:
I won't bother addressing the rest of your post, as they are not your words or thoughts, but simply something you probably mined off one apologetic site or another, and dishonest as quote mining always is.
Go ahead, look up my words, and the very reason why you cannot, is because you can't counter it. Typical.

I challenge you.
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Old 12-30-2009, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
29,395 posts, read 28,381,811 times
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Insults are the last refuge of the incompetent. Here is a bit of simplified info on evolution, which I believe and accept fully...You on the other hand are quite entitled to believe that it all came about by magic, but I cannot believe in magic I'm afraid.

Scientific understanding requires both facts and theories that can explain those facts in a coherent manner. Evolution, in this context, is both a fact and a theory. It is an incontrovertible fact that organisms have changed, or evolved, during the history of life on Earth. And biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major patterns of change.

Evidence from fossils. Based on myriad similarities and differences between living species, evolutionary biology makes predictions about the features of ancestral forms. For example, numerous features indicate that birds are derived from reptilian ancestors.

Evidence from genetics. The genomes of all organisms contain overwhelming evidence for evolution. All living species share the same basic mechanism of heredity using DNA (or RNA in some viruses) to encode genes that are passed from parent to offspring, and which are transcribed and translated into proteins during each organism’s life. Using DNA sequences, biologists quantify the genetic similarities and differences among species, in order to determine which species are more closely related to one another and which are more distantly related. In doing so, biologists use essentially the same evidence and logic used to determine paternity in lawsuits. The pattern of genetic relatedness between all species indicates a branching tree that implies divergence from a common ancestor.

Evolutionary biology is a strong and vigorous field of science. A theoretical framework that encompasses several basic mechanisms is consistent with the patterns seen in nature; and there is abundant evidence demonstrating the action of these mechanisms as well as their contributions to nature. Hence, evolution is both a theory and a set of established facts that the theory explains.

Evolution: Fact and Theory (ActionBioscience)
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:23 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,439,389 times
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Since no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him, this is why believers are to refrain from striving with man. We cannot convince nor convict nor provide answers to those that are not seeking God, and since it is on God to cause the increase, the burden of the ministry is on Him as He is the One that is working. So when non-believers are being argumentative or even when trying to correct wayward believers that do not hear the correction after the second admonition, we are to rely on Jesus Christ to help us to withdraw from those contrary and opposing themselves.
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
29,395 posts, read 28,381,811 times
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Off topic....
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville,Florida
3,772 posts, read 8,969,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Since no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him, this is why believers are to refrain from striving with man. We cannot convince nor convict nor provide answers to those that are not seeking God, and since it is on God to cause the increase, the burden of the ministry is on Him as He is the One that is working. So when non-believers are being argumentative or even when trying to correct wayward believers that do not hear the correction after the second admonition, we are to rely on Jesus Christ to help us to withdraw from those contrary and opposing themselves.
Good post and you are on topic.
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,669,220 times
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what's the topic again ?
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,439,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post


what's the topic again ?
The Christian And The Evolution Theory

It is ironic how some of the replies are from non-believers, and yet this thread was posted in the Christian sub forum: not in the Athiests and the Agnostics forum acting if I had challenged them or even had addressed them from the OP.

The OP is addressing the concern regarding believers and the evolution theory... and how the Bible is the guide and the means for discernment between good and evil with the Lord's help exposing false teachings, fables, and other lies that are in the world.

Jesus held the authority of the scriptures over the words of man. We should be noting that fact as we are living in this world being flooded by the lies of the world through the media and false prophets coming into the churches.

The call is for believers to go to Jesus Christ for help and discernment in seeking the answers we need by the scriptures. May you trust Him to be Your Good Shepherd in helping you to see that we are to know Him through the scriptures: not by mockers running amok in science, falsely so called.... that has turned many away from the faith.

The world does not want believers to turn to Jesus Christ and the King James Bible for the meat of God's words, hence proven by the distractions in this thread.

Keep your eyes on Jesus. As no lie can be of the truth.. the truth shall set you free from the deceitful doctrines and fables of man.

1 John 2:21I have not written unto you because ye know not thetruth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth....27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,010 posts, read 15,901,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
The Christian And The Evolution Theory

It is ironic how some of the replies are from non-believers, and yet this thread was posted in the Christian sub forum: not in the Athiests and the Agnostics forum acting if I had challenged them or even had addressed them from the OP.

The OP is addressing the concern regarding believers and the evolution theory... and how the Bible is the guide and the means for discernment between good and evil with the Lord's help exposing false teachings, fables, and other lies that are in the world.

Jesus held the authority of the scriptures over the words of man. We should be noting that fact as we are living in this world being flooded by the lies of the world through the media and false prophets coming into the churches.

The call is for believers to go to Jesus Christ for help and discernment in seeking the answers we need by the scriptures. May you trust Him to be Your Good Shepherd in helping you to see that we are to know Him through the scriptures: not by mockers running amok in science, falsely so called.... that has turned many away from the faith.

The world does not want believers to turn to Jesus Christ and the King James Bible for the meat of God's words, hence proven by the distractions in this thread.

Keep your eyes on Jesus. As no lie can be of the truth.. the truth shall set you free from the deceitful doctrines and fables of man.

1 John 2:21I have not written unto you because ye know not thetruth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth....27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Ironic, gee there are Christians that stalk the atheist site and post. Whats the problem?
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