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Old 12-27-2009, 10:00 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 6,730,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
The express image of God?...you mean God humbled in the human state who sat with folks that were sinners and spread the news to?

I am familliar with your non-deist point of view, and to be quite honest with you, if you haven't gotten there yet, and you fought me and others vehemountly against the God Man Jesus Christ, then how would you know anything about Jesus Christ? Your quickening has not occurred yet.
Until then, what you interpret about Jesus/God and what He did in the flesh is in error.



Jesus was a man, God in the flesh, humbled into our state, and became sin itself...which part are you not grasping here firstborn?

I remember, you don't believe He is God in the flesh.

Humbled, humbled, humbled.



Again...humbled in the flesh
What i want to know is ... What part of the fact that God is the one who drags us to the cross of Christ to be cleansed don't you understand? He loved us before we loved him. We love him because of that simple fact more than any other. He came to us when we were in need and dragged our carcasses to the Cross where we were cleaned and quickened in the spirit by the work of Christ. We didn't walk to the cross or even crawl. We certainly didnt come running ... We were dragged limp as a corpse and dead in sin ... Having no power or life of our own to come to the cross. No man can come to the son unless the father draw(drag) him.
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Old 12-27-2009, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 4,958,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
What i want to know is ... What part of the fact that God is the one who drags us to the cross of Christ to be cleansed don't you understand? He loved us before we loved him. We love him because of that simple fact more than any other. He came to us when we were in need and dragged our carcasses to the Cross where we were cleaned and quickened in the spirit by the work of Christ. We didn't walk to the cross or even crawl. We certainly didnt come running ... We were dragged limp as a corpse and dead in sin ... Having no power or life of our own to come to the cross. No man can come to the son unless the father draw him.
Ironmaw, I agree with you on being dragged....that which happened to me, so I have personal experience in it. What I am telling you is you were priviledged of that dragging...don't take it for granted...the grace He has bestowed on you is special, and for His purpose and Glory, no matter what the outcome is.....the same goes for the damned...the pupose in their life is for His glory. That is the message......He ordains it, but He "let's" us make choices, and we are accountable for those choices...otherwise..you are a robot.

What I argue with you is solely one thing...or two (Preterism and Futurism), but the first is the fact that you believe that post mortem, those that denied and rejected the gospel in their life will be granted eternal life...eventually, with those that worked so hard against sin.

That is what I disagree with, and that is what I say is contrary to God.
Completely.


So you don't believe in any kind of free will whatsoever?
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Old 12-27-2009, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 799,117 times
Reputation: 203
The Doctrine of "Original Sin" Is Unscriptural

Ezek 18:2-4...
2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4 Behold, all souls are mine...

Jeremiah 31:30...
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Nothing I know of in Scripture teaches the passing on of sin to our offspring, i.e., the doctrine of "Original Sin" (another phrase that is NOT in the Bible, but is from Roman Catholic tradition.) There is something like original death going on, and "...sin reigns in [the domain of] death..." (Rm 5:21) In 2 Pet 1:4, it tells of God and His giving us, "...exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." "Corruption" is the decay of a corpse. This comes from death. "The wages of sin is death." Why do we lust in the first place? Because we are wanting something we do not have. What do we not have? Life. We are born lacking because we are born dying. Attempting to meet the need misses it's target and enlarges the death process.

The apostle, teaching about judgment and that it is not the hearers, but rather the doers of God's law that are justified, points out, "...the nations that have no law, by nature may be doing that which the law demands..." (Rm 2:14, CLT) I was raised with the opposite idea of my "nature." In fact, it went so far that, without a successful conversion experience, by default I was to be tortured ceaselessly for ever for just being born here. I started out damned for Adam's sin. My original nature was altogether evil. This is a horrible foundation in a child's life and is hard to be rid of later. That puts a real crimp in your love for yourself and the rest of mankind. One lives a life of God ordained dread and doom, the whole sense of self always under condemnation. Every human, no matter what age, is viewed with an evil eye. It really is the devil's lie. It was never taught that "by nature" I would do God's will, as Paul pointed to in the passage just quoted.

Scripture also teaches that sin is "against nature." (cf., Rm 2:26-27) The doctrine of "original sin" keeps millions of people believing humans are inherently evil when we are actually good. When we "do by nature the things written in the Law," and sin is when we "do those things against nature," this means, though fallen, man is still "good" if not "very good." ("The Fall" isn't actual Biblical terminology either.)

Through the things that are made, the creation (cf., Rm 1:20) and in our own selves (cf., Rm 1:19, 21-23) God has taught us of Himself and has even revealed Himself in us. This is spoken of those that do not have the knowledge in the written word. Paul is certainly not talking about the work of the spirit in the new birth; but, he speaks of the nature of those among the nations (or, gentiles) as they are born of Adam.

Augustine (354-430 AD) seems to be the source of the "original sin" teaching. It is largely based on taking David's statement about himself regarding adultery with Bathsheba and the murder of her husband Nathan and applying it to everybody. The KJV illustrates that bias in translating it: "In sin did my mother conceive me." (Ps 51:5) Scripture nowhere says sexual intercourse is sin. Concordant Literal has: "Behold, I was with (lit., in) depravity when I was travailed in birth, And in sin when my mother conceived me." This is a difficult word, but it doesn't teach an inherently wicked nature is the lot of all humanity other than Jesus.

Another important source Augustine used was the following passage from Romans:
Romns 5:12-14 (CLT)...
12 Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind, on which all sinned --
13 for until law sin was in the world, yet sin is not being taken into account when there is no law;
14 nevertheless death reigns from Adam unto Moses, over those also who do not sin in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him Who is about to be.

But Paul did not say the sin of Adam was inherited by the rest of humanity. He says Adam died for his sin and that death spread to the rest of humanity. In fact, God's word goes on to say sin and death have no more dominion over humanity because of the victory over all destroying man by Jesus' death and resurrection bringing in a new humanity.

Romans 5:16-17 (CLT)...
16 And not as through one act of sinning is the gratuity. For, indeed, the judgment is out of one into condemnation, yet the grace is out of many offenses into a just award.
17 For if, by the offense of the one, death reigns through the one, much rather, those obtaining the superabundance of grace and the gratuity of righteousness shall be reigning in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:24 AM
 
17,984 posts, read 13,694,523 times
Reputation: 5791
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
The Doctrine of "Original Sin" Is Unscriptural

Ezek 18:2-4...
2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4 Behold, all souls are mine...

Jeremiah 31:30...
30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Nothing I know of in Scripture teaches the passing on of sin to our offspring, i.e., the doctrine of "Original Sin" (another phrase that is NOT in the Bible, but is from Roman Catholic tradition.) There is something like original death going on, and "...sin reigns in [the domain of] death..." (Rm 5:21) In 2 Pet 1:4, it tells of God and His giving us, "...exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." "Corruption" is the decay of a corpse. This comes from death. "The wages of sin is death." Why do we lust in the first place? Because we are wanting something we do not have. What do we not have? Life. We are born lacking because we are born dying. Attempting to meet the need misses it's target and enlarges the death process.

The apostle, teaching about judgment and that it is not the hearers, but rather the doers of God's law that are justified, points out, "...the nations that have no law, by nature may be doing that which the law demands..." (Rm 2:14, CLT) I was raised with the opposite idea of my "nature." In fact, it went so far that, without a successful conversion experience, by default I was to be tortured ceaselessly for ever for just being born here. I started out damned for Adam's sin. My original nature was altogether evil. This is a horrible foundation in a child's life and is hard to be rid of later. That puts a real crimp in your love for yourself and the rest of mankind. One lives a life of God ordained dread and doom, the whole sense of self always under condemnation. Every human, no matter what age, is viewed with an evil eye. It really is the devil's lie. It was never taught that "by nature" I would do God's will, as Paul pointed to in the passage just quoted.

Scripture also teaches that sin is "against nature." (cf., Rm 2:26-27) The doctrine of "original sin" keeps millions of people believing humans are inherently evil when we are actually good. When we "do by nature the things written in the Law," and sin is when we "do those things against nature," this means, though fallen, man is still "good" if not "very good." ("The Fall" isn't actual Biblical terminology either.)

Through the things that are made, the creation (cf., Rm 1:20) and in our own selves (cf., Rm 1:19, 21-23) God has taught us of Himself and has even revealed Himself in us. This is spoken of those that do not have the knowledge in the written word. Paul is certainly not talking about the work of the spirit in the new birth; but, he speaks of the nature of those among the nations (or, gentiles) as they are born of Adam.

Augustine (354-430 AD) seems to be the source of the "original sin" teaching. It is largely based on taking David's statement about himself regarding adultery with Bathsheba and the murder of her husband Nathan and applying it to everybody. The KJV illustrates that bias in translating it: "In sin did my mother conceive me." (Ps 51:5) Scripture nowhere says sexual intercourse is sin. Concordant Literal has: "Behold, I was with (lit., in) depravity when I was travailed in birth, And in sin when my mother conceived me." This is a difficult word, but it doesn't teach an inherently wicked nature is the lot of all humanity other than Jesus.

Another important source Augustine used was the following passage from Romans:
Romns 5:12-14 (CLT)...
12 Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind, on which all sinned --
13 for until law sin was in the world, yet sin is not being taken into account when there is no law;
14 nevertheless death reigns from Adam unto Moses, over those also who do not sin in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him Who is about to be.

But Paul did not say the sin of Adam was inherited by the rest of humanity. He says Adam died for his sin and that death spread to the rest of humanity. In fact, God's word goes on to say sin and death have no more dominion over humanity because of the victory over all destroying man by Jesus' death and resurrection bringing in a new humanity.

Romans 5:16-17 (CLT)...
16 And not as through one act of sinning is the gratuity. For, indeed, the judgment is out of one into condemnation, yet the grace is out of many offenses into a just award.
17 For if, by the offense of the one, death reigns through the one, much rather, those obtaining the superabundance of grace and the gratuity of righteousness shall be reigning in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
To the contrary. When God created Adam and placed him in the garden, He gave Adam a test for his volition. God put one tree off limits and warned Adam of the penalty for disobedience.

Genesis 2:17 'But from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it dying (spiritually) you shall die (physically)'. The moment Adam ate the fruit he died spiritually. He lost his relationship with God. As a result of his spiritual death, Adam died physically, some 930 years later.

After he ate from the tree, God said to Adam, in Genesis 3:17 ''...Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life, 18) Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you shall eat the plants of the field; 19) By the sweat of your face You shall eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.''

Because of Adams sin, nature was cursed. And because Adam was the representitive man, the federal head of the human race, when he died spiritually, the result is that all mankind is born physically alive but spiritually dead. (Separated from God in time-no relationship with God)

Romans 5:12 'Therefore, just as through one man (Adam) sin (original sin) entered into the world, and death (spiritual death) through sin (original sin), and so death (spiritual death) spread to all men, because all sinned (the moment Adam sinned.)

Romans 5:15 '...For if by the transgression of the one (Adams original sin) the many died (spiritual death)...

Romans 5:16 'And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned (Adam); for on the one hand the judgment (of spiritual death) arose from one transgression (Adams original sin) resulting in condemnation (to all mankind)

Romans 5:17 'For if by the transgression of the one (Adam's original sin), death (spiritual death) reigned (over the entire human race) through the one (Adam),...

Romans 5:18 'So then as through one transgression (Adams original sin) there resulted condemnation to all men...'

Romans 5:19 'For as through the one man's (Adam's) disobedience the many (the entire human race) were made sinners...

As is clearly shown by these passages, Adams original sin is imputed to the entire human race. Because Adam is the head of the human race, we fell when he fell, and we inherited his sinful nature. Adam became a sinner, we are born sinners. (Rom 5:12)

And it is because all mankind is born spiritually dead as a result of Adams sin, that Christ came into the world as a member of the human race so that He could die for the sins of the world and redeem mankind from the slave market of sin. As a result of Christ's substitutionary spiritual death on the Cross, the penalty for sin has been paid by Him, and God's offer of salvation is extended to whosoever believes in Christ for salvation.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

But to those who do not believe in Christ;

John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.''


The poster made the claim that mankind is not inherently evil but that we are actually good. This is not what the word of God says.

Romans 3:9,12 ''...for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are ALL under sin; 10) as it is written, ''There is none righteous, not even one; 11) There is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; 12) All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.

Isa 64:6 'For all of us have become like on who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment (literally menstrual rags.)

That is why;

Titus 3:5 'He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

From God's standpoint we are not good. To the contrary, we are born into a state of total depravity. That is why we are in need of salvation.

Jeremiah 17:9 'The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; who can understand it?

Gen. 6:5 'Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.'

Psalms 51:5 'Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity. And in sin my mother conceived me.'

Eph. 2:1-3 'And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3) Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Eph. 2:5 'Even when we were dead in our trangressions...'

The claim that there is no original sin, and that man is basically good, is a lie straight from the mouth of Satan.
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Old 12-28-2009, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 799,117 times
Reputation: 203
I do my best to retain a position that is not contradicting any of God's Word. This includes searching whatever another presents that would reveal me to be wrong, specially Scriptures stating other than my present view. I try to follow this quote from Finney" Adjust to increasing light as rapidly as possible." Whatever verses say we are sinful, dead in our sins, even that all have sinned are in no way being set aside by what I am saying. But these things also do not teach an inherited sin nature which was transmitted generationaly from parents to children. Only a very few can be construed that way. It is a worthy thing to consider with the tools we can employ.

God did not give us a conscience so we could give it away to some other man we regard our leader or some group and their mandatory traditions. A Proverb says: "It is the glory of God to hide a matter; and, the honor of kings to search it out." Many verses you have quoted or emphasized in your post were somewhat dealt with in several posts. Here is one with which I disagree on many other points, yet points out difficulties in using various Scripture passages to teach "original sin:" http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...11-618709.html

I would add that whatever our understanding -- and I would hope we are all increasing in wisdom and knowledge from where ever we are at with our own understanding -- that it is not necessary to be a mouthpiece of Satan if we search out this and other matters, searching and debating Scripture while coming into the mind of Christ. I walked with God when much of what I believed was wrong about even the basics that I had gotten from others around me. I trusted parents and the church I was raised in, not knowing any better. Then I read the Bible for myself, book by book as God gave it to us, and, O dear Lord Jesus have mercy, was I surprised to find how different were the things God had to say. This is part of why I seek to have patience with others that do not see what I see. God has been so good to teach me, bringing me from a place afar off.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:49 AM
 
5,313 posts, read 4,078,278 times
Reputation: 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
What I argue with you is solely one thing...or two (Preterism and Futurism), but the first is the fact that you believe that post mortem, those that denied and rejected the gospel in their life will be granted eternal life...eventually, with those that worked so hard against sin.

That is what I disagree with, and that is what I say is contrary to God.
Completely.


So you don't believe in any kind of free will whatsoever?

Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL mankind, ESPECIALLY those who believe.
"especially". Why "especially"? Because those who BELIEVE, are reaping the benefits now in this life. How? They see the glorious kingdom of God. They see how LOVE conquers ALL. How Jesus IS, IS, IS the saviour of ALL mankind. They see the magnificent picture of our Glorious God. Our Creator who LOVES His creation (His ENTIRE creation) with an absolutely unfathomable love. NO... puny man can't begin to FATHOM this love. But those who BELIEVE can see glimpses of it. This is one of the main reasons they are called "ESPECIALLY saved." It has nothing at ALL to do with some kind of ridiculous notion that the Father will torture or annihilate His children because they were ignorant of His immense love while they were alive. God's plan is perfect. Puny man does not louse it up. He is the CREATOR of the universe. If even ONE human being would be lost forever, He would not be worthy of one shred of worship. Because He would have brought into existence, a being whom He should not have. Our Creator is ALL-POWERFUL. He is not some weakling waiting for people to "choose" Him. That is so laughable. He has already CHOSEN us. ALL of us. Now when are we going to start to believe it???

What you fail to realize is that God's plan is so much higher than puny little man's imaginations (terribly VAIN imaginations I might add, that make them "better than, smarter than, more loved, etc." than their fellow man. Oh sure, most won't openly admit it, but many think this to theirselves but won't admit it. They worked hard at believing therefore they deserve a prize wheras their fellow man who struggles BECAUSE they don't REALIZE how much God really does love them... "..deserve LESS than me". VAIN imaginations of man. If you believe in the goodness of God, your prize is your faith NOW in THIS life.) LOVE is what makes sin fade from your life. The more you cultivate LOVE, the less need you have for the LAW, because there is NOTHING EVIL TO RESTRAIN.
Evil is basically NON-LOVE. All NEED God. Non-love is showing us our NEED for God.
ALL NEEDS WILL BE MET in this regard. EVERY KNEE WILL BOW.

God's plan is 100% perfect.

God DOES conceal things until HE (not us) has properly prepared the heart so that it may properly recieve truth.

All of this is for HIS glory. He has perfect timing. And ALL will come to the Father through Jesus, each in his own time. His plan is 100% perfect. Not 90% or 99.9999%, but 100% PERFECT. Not ONE will be lost.
Some do not see this right now.
But one day ALL WILL.
That is a guarantee.
A beautiful guarantee.



We are ALL in this together.
One day, the beautiful picture of reconciliation will finally become clear.
and every SINGLE thing in this life will make sense.
The suffering... ALL of it.... will make sense when every knee finally bows, (out of the sheer weight of His love for us).
We will understand what brought on suffering, we will understand the reasons behind all of it.
The NON-LOVE behind every shred of suffering, every little thing that trickles down in this life on earth...
the love and the non-love and it's immense impact on ALL life.
And we will see our Saviour....
We will start to finally FATHOM our Creator's love...
and every knee will bow.
And ALL will CLING to this Loving, Beautiful Father of ours... for all eternity.
His plan is 100% perfect.

One day, His character will no longer be crucified.
And all will see his magnificent plan and revel in His absolutely UNFATHOMABLE love.
And all tears WILL be wiped away by His loving hands.

What is seen is temporary, what is unseen is eternal.
We are in the BEST hands possible.
Although it doesn't seem that way at times in this present darkness we are immersed in.

It will all make sense one day.
LOVE CONQUERS ALL.
All darkness will one day fade.
And we will be through with it, once and for all.


Peace.

Last edited by .sparrow.; 12-29-2009 at 01:03 AM..
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:59 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,245,131 times
Reputation: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
Many verses you have quoted or emphasized in your post were somewhat dealt with in several posts. Here is one with which I disagree on many other points, yet points out difficulties in using various Scripture passages to teach "original sin:" http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...11-618709.html
I think you meant to link this? :
Do We Really Have A Sin "Nature"?
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 799,117 times
Reputation: 203
Thanx Firstborn888. You are very perspicacious. (I'll bet you've never been called that 3 times before breakfast.)
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:57 AM
 
17,984 posts, read 13,694,523 times
Reputation: 5791
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
I do my best to retain a position that is not contradicting any of God's Word. This includes searching whatever another presents that would reveal me to be wrong, specially Scriptures stating other than my present view. I try to follow this quote from Finney" Adjust to increasing light as rapidly as possible." Whatever verses say we are sinful, dead in our sins, even that all have sinned are in no way being set aside by what I am saying. But these things also do not teach an inherited sin nature which was transmitted generationaly from parents to children. Only a very few can be construed that way. It is a worthy thing to consider with the tools we can employ.

God did not give us a conscience so we could give it away to some other man we regard our leader or some group and their mandatory traditions. A Proverb says: "It is the glory of God to hide a matter; and, the honor of kings to search it out." Many verses you have quoted or emphasized in your post were somewhat dealt with in several posts. Here is one with which I disagree on many other points, yet points out difficulties in using various Scripture passages to teach "original sin:" http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...11-618709.html

I would add that whatever our understanding -- and I would hope we are all increasing in wisdom and knowledge from where ever we are at with our own understanding -- that it is not necessary to be a mouthpiece of Satan if we search out this and other matters, searching and debating Scripture while coming into the mind of Christ. I walked with God when much of what I believed was wrong about even the basics that I had gotten from others around me. I trusted parents and the church I was raised in, not knowing any better. Then I read the Bible for myself, book by book as God gave it to us, and, O dear Lord Jesus have mercy, was I surprised to find how different were the things God had to say. This is part of why I seek to have patience with others that do not see what I see. God has been so good to teach me, bringing me from a place afar off.
As shown in post #64 the Bible does teach original sin. Your refusal to accept that fact puts you at odds with the word of God. The Bible teaches that man is born into the world with his position 'in Adam.' That is why we are born spiritually dead and in need of salvation. And that is why Jesus Christ had to be born via a virgin birth, in order not to be born with a genetically transmitted old sin nature to which God would have had to impute Adams original sin which would have caused Christ to be born in sin and thus spiritually dead, and unable to do that which He came into the world to do. Namely, to pay the penalty for the sins of the world. Only someone born outside the 'slave market of sin' can purchase the freedom of those who are born into the 'slave market of sin.'

Then sin nature is genetically transmitted by the male through the sperm. At the moment of birth, God imputes Adams original sin to that old sin nature, the Bible calls it 'the old man' or 'old self.'

Ephesians 4:22 'That you put off concernng the former manner of life; the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts.'

Romans 6:6 'Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

The old sin nature is also referred to as 'sin' (Romans 6:2.)

The old sin nature is referred to as the 'body of sin' (Romans 6:6)

The old sin nature is referred to as 'the flesh' (Gal. 5:17.) 'For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.



We were never condemned for our own personal sins. We were all condemned as a result of Adam's original sin. Our own personal sins were temporarily set aside until Christ came into the world to go to the Cross and pay the penalty for them.

That was the purpose of the animal sacrifices in the Old Testament. Christ hadn't yet come historically to pay for those sins, and the animal sacrifices were performed to God's specification for the purpose of temporarily covering those sins. The animal sacrifices had to be performed over and over again. They were a type, a picture of the sacrifice that Christ would make. And when He did come into the world, His sacrifice was once for all. (Hebrews 10:1-18.)

Last edited by Mike555; 12-29-2009 at 10:06 AM..
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,245,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
Thanx Firstborn888. You are very perspicacious. (I'll bet you've never been called that 3 times before breakfast.)
I didn't think we were allowed to use language like that here
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