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Old 03-04-2010, 02:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNick View Post
You still ignored Jesus giving the Apostles to forgive sins.
Apostles?

'On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."' Jn 20:19-23 NIV
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shibata View Post
Apostles?

'On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."' Jn 20:19-23 NIV
Thats your response, that I misspoke and said Apostles and not disciples. Sorry, the authority was given to the disciples. Now, please, continue with your response.
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DNick View Post
the authority was given to the disciples.
So the authority was given to the disciples. What's more to say?
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shibata View Post
So the authority was given to the disciples. What's more to say?
Plenty. Why would he give that authority, if all sins were already forgiven?
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DNick View Post
Plenty. Why would he give that authority, if all sins were already forgiven?
Because if one rejects Christ, one opts to present one's own righteousness to the throne, rather than his, as evidence. And of course one's own righteousness is not much.
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shibata View Post
Because if one rejects Christ, one opts to present one's own righteousness to the throne, rather than his, as evidence. And of course one's own righteousness is not much.
I'm confused about what that had to do with all sins being forgiven past, present, and future.

but we agree that our own righteousness is not much at all.
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Old 03-04-2010, 03:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DNick View Post
I'm confused about what that had to do with all sins being forgiven past, present, and future.
If God is to be God, no person in heaven and earth can act with impunity towards him. Otherwise, there is chaos in heaven and earth. Now Jesus has paid for all sins, ever committed, and no-one can ever say "I cocked a snook at God and got away with it." This is why Satan is defeated- Jesus used Satan's strength against him. But if we argue with this, and say "I refuse to accept that I need salvation," we take the responsibility for all our deeds and words upon ourselves. That is our sovereign right as gods, and nobody can deprive us of it. That is why Jesus said he came for the sick, and not the healthy.
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Old 03-04-2010, 03:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shibata View Post
If God is to be God, no person in heaven and earth can act with impunity towards him. Otherwise, there is chaos in heaven and earth. Now Jesus has paid for all sins, ever committed, and no-one can ever say "I cocked a snook at God and got away with it." This is why Satan is defeated- Jesus used Satan's strength against him. But if we argue with this, and say "I refuse to accept that I need salvation," we take the responsibility for all our deeds and words upon ourselves. That is our sovereign right as gods, and nobody can deprive us of it. That is why Jesus said he came for the sick, and not the healthy.
That doesn't explain why he sent out his diciples with the authority to forgive sins, if they were all already forgiven
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Old 03-04-2010, 03:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DNick View Post
That doesn't explain why he sent out his diciples with the authority to forgive sins, if they were all already forgiven
Nobody argues that mere men can forgive sins, do they. They declare what God's view is of forgiveness.
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Old 03-04-2010, 03:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shibata View Post
Nobody argues that mere men can forgive sins, do they. They declare what God's view is of forgiveness.
I'm sorry, can you try and explain that a little better. Im having a hard time understanding your point.
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