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Like me? Kat, I am a Unie, but I stop where most keep going when it comes to the rejection of the faith in this life, and the result of their destination afterwards. To me, the church is the result of what was already reconciled by Christ for mankind, and that church is the result of the redemptive work for mankind that Christ had already accomplished. That's all FWIW Carry on!
Just yesterday I was trying to imagine that very thing again. Like, putting a series of articles in small town local papers in the state of Georgia where I live. I think I could buy the space on their religion page, but they wouldn't print it once they read it. I don't know any way around the fact they are privately owned and can do what they want. I also imagined announcing and advertizing public debates once a week in the nearby town's central open, large gazebo-like structure. The truth is most people, I'm thinking specially of Christians, have never heard a good presentation of the case for Universal Salvation. Those few that have even heard of it at all have usually only been given the usual short several reasons why it is supposed to be a deception, objections that we have to repeatedly say are a misrepresentation of what we believe at that.
For my area I thought of hanging on residents doors a plastic bag of select pamphlets I've written, something I may yet do.
Imagine the impossibility of getting air time on Christian radio or TV...The very few times I've encountered people even trying to debunk it in the religious media, besides being too short a time to do it justice, they edit out the Scripture references from the defenders presentations making it seem like it's only a matter of personal preference.
Carnal immaturity is probably the main surface reason church people seem to think you can't even be a Christian at all unless you think like the eschatological tradition they've been taught; but, the divisive attitude of many average believers towards a more Biblical prophetic stance still leaves me wondering what really is their problem and how to get over it. I do believe God shuts people out of possessing the precious treasure of a knowing of the truth.
Last edited by JamesMRohde; 12-29-2009 at 09:22 AM..
Count me in, I'd like to support this any way that I can.
We also need to ignore the ET'ers in this thread, they will only attempt to sidetrack us.
If we do the billboards, I am wondering if it would be good idea to not only mention UR but take a swipe at the concept of ET as well. Otherwise, it may not really stand out.
Forced to believe? hmmm, Like Saul was forced to believe? Only took a few seconds of being in HIs presence for him to realize who Christ was. And though He experienced much persecution himself, stoning, and other hardships, Paul counted it all joy for the honor of serving his king.
Wherever did ANY universalist say people are TORTURED TO BELIEVE. You don't have to be forced to believe something right in front of your face. However, we DO reap what we sow. But that's not going to be being burned, or any other type of physical torture,and certainly won't be everlasting, with no end. As someone else mentioned, I'm thinking shame and regret will play a large part in the process of being refined by SPIRITUAL/metaphorical fire, but that too will be temporary. When all wrongs have been corrected, when all those who received ills in this world are very content and even filled with joy what purpose would shame and regret serve. What purpose would there be in holding anger against anyone, even yourself? .
As for the whole world being of a universal reconciliation mindset? I hardly think so. As I understand it, atheists don't believe in any afterlife at all. Islam adherents believe in hell for those outside of their faith. Relatively few Christians believe in universal reconciliation, most convinced of hell for the wicked/non-believers or annihilation. I think some religions teach some sort of union with a supreme force, but if I recall, one loses his/her identity when this takes place. But this really isn't all that different than some Christians espouse, as some think we won't remember any of our friends/loved ones who didn't make it to heaven, and therefore large parts of this life will be forgotten, leaving us wondering who we are, but none of that matters as long as we're in heaven. I don't want to forget anyone who has been in my life, or those who have lived and died before me and those to come after me. If we don't remember the bad things that developed our good traits, why didn't God just instill them in us to begin with?
Enjoy the day with peace and good will.
Last edited by ScarletWren; 07-13-2010 at 09:22 AM..
Forced to believe? hmmm, Like Saul was forced to believe? Only took a few seconds of being in HIs presence for him to realize who Christ was. And though He experienced much persecution himself, stoning, and other hardships,Paul counted it all joy for the honor of serving his king.
Wherever did ANY universalist say people are TORTURED TO BELIEVE. You don't have to be forced to believe something right in front of your face. However, we DO reap what we sow. But that's not going to be being burned, or any other type of physical torture,. As someone else mentioned, I'm thinking shame and regret will play a large part in the process of being refined by SPIRITUAL/metaphorical fire.
Count me in, I'd like to support this any way that I can.
We also need to ignore the ET'ers in this thread, they will only attempt to sidetrack us.
If we do the billboards, I am wondering if it would be good idea to not only mention UR but take a swipe at the concept of ET as well. Otherwise, it may not really stand out.
Good points Zero 7.
Regarding "taking a swipe at ET": you would have to be tactful. Consider this message board. If you say something like "Hell is a pagan myth", most believers will ignore it, and most atheists will say 'already knew that'. To be honest, no one will 'get it' unless God is opening their eyes.
But anyway, maybe something like this:
"There is hope beyond hell. God is love and love does not fail."
I already know what they believe, and we are talking about billboards here, so one-liners is what we are looking for.
No,you have no clue what UR is about,and you show it with every post you make.But far be it for me to expect someone trying to discuss and repudiate a belief to actually learn about it first.Who the heck wants to know about their positions when that just means you can't go off on silly rants about them?It is much more satisfying to throw out snappy oneliners in ignorance of what they actually believe.
You do NOT know what URs believe . . . you have a propagandized and distorted view predicated on the stupid idea that without fear of ET or annihilation as motivation people will not find or follow Jesus and His commands to "love God and each other." Yours is a primitive and outmoded view of human motivation.
Yes i agree ... Søren Kierkegaard coined the term, double mindedness, which refers to the motivation of carnal human beings to do good based on one of two things, or both simultaneously, either for a fear of punishment or for hope of reward, or both at the same time, instead of doing good simply for goodness sake.
Fundamentalist orthodox Christianity plays on the carnal fears and on the carnal greed of human beings. Threatening them with ET if they step out of line, and enticing them with reward if they tow the line. This reward and punishment system of world religions is in effect what keeps people from ever truly maturing spiritually. It literally causes spiritual stagnation and it feeds and plays on carnal appetites of hate, fear, greed, elitism, the respect of persons, etc. ...
You cannot be motivated by love if you are motivated by fear and desire for personal reward. Love is selfless and does not seek its own security or reward, but instead it desires the security and the benefit of others before ones self. Love is selfless, not selfish. Love puts others before ones self and prefers others to ones self ... That is not what the religions of the world seek to instill or perpetuate in the world because true love brings about independence from carnal worldly systems of punishment and reward.
People who have true love in their hearts cannot be so easily manipulated by the powers that be in the world.
Are you a Universalist? - what if we started an effort to promote this message on a massive scale? - would you be interested? I'm talking billboards, commercials, etc... Non profit - all about the message...
What say you?
Paul
Concerning the OP, i could possibly get behind something like this, though i am always weary when things become organized ... I consider whether or not it might cause the simple teachings of UR to become yet another denomination, something that i could not get behind.
God bless ...
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Carry on!
