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Old 12-25-2011, 10:00 AM
 
14,685 posts, read 7,697,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrhockney View Post
Hey, I went from prudishly and archaically thinking they were all hedonistic damned people doing gross things to realizing they are just sexual humans like the rest of us who were likely born that way in most cases. I mean I didn't even know a hermaphrodite existed 10 years ago and I've heard conservatives Christians say that have a "choice" of one or the other because they have both equipment, but that just sounds overly concerned with physicality as opposed to mentality to me.... If they are "born with it" (even if theirs is more genetic than developmental) it should be commonsense that its possible for a gay person to be born with their mentality.

My conservative side still haunts my thinking in some ways making me still question how biblical it is, but I do think your arguments are too significant and troubling to be ignored. People like you are indeed making a difference and I hope you continue to post your side.
Thanks Jr. I appreciate the sentiment. This issue has just become so divisive among Christianity, it's a shame that humanity can be so hateful against things they don't understand. Especially when it's based on something as ridiculous as a 4000 year old holiness code that required execution for basically everything (and ironically, no one has ever been charged with homosexuality under Jewish law) or the pagan worship practices of the Greeks and Romans.

Moderator cut: off topic

Last edited by Miss Blue; 12-25-2011 at 03:59 PM..

 
Old 12-25-2011, 10:08 AM
 
14,685 posts, read 7,697,260 times
Reputation: 6306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
gays are hedonists mostly yes but not all. yes, we agree on that somewhat.
We don't agree. Mine was a question, as in, "You believe all gays are hedonists, despite having less partners than straights?"

I don't believe being gay automatically warrants hedonism. Are some gays very promiscuous? Yes, but so are a ridiculous amount of heterosexuals. I work with 2 gay men who have been in longer monogamous relationships than most heterosexual Christian marriages.

Quote:
islam however is not overwhelmingly pro gay with a few dissenting extremists. sorry. in your dreams.
Well, Islam is dominate in 3rd world cesspools, so most of them fall under "extremist" or "conservative" viewpoints, which are very anti-gay yes. Christians have more liberal/moderate members than Islam because it's dominate in the enlightened progressive world.

Quote:
as to buddism something i know a bit about again-- the point u did not seem to catch, aesthetics aka monks are not into sex. a gay that occasionally drops into a buddist meditation session, comes late, leaves early, and then goes back to the bar and tells everybody he is a buddist and they love gays, oh yes, he says that buddism is pro gay. not so. again we hear and see what we want to.
Does Buddhism have anti-gay doctrine like Islam and Christianity? We have a Buddhist on this board who says nothing in any Buddhist teaching condemns gays.
 
Old 12-25-2011, 01:59 PM
 
Location: US
22,710 posts, read 11,507,360 times
Reputation: 1332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
I suggest you do some research yourself as you appear to be confused. Leviticus chapters 18 and 20 were warning the Hebrews about idolatrous Canaanite cultural and religious practices, not Greek cultural practices.

Even in Greek culture where all things male were exalted, it was not acceptable for 2 adult men to have a romantic/sexual relationship with each other. The Greek practice of pederasty (which probably originated from the Spartans) between an older male 'mentor' and a younger male 'beardless' teen, is not the same as having a homosexual orientation as we understand it today. Many men who practiced pederasty at that time would have been heterosexual and were not at all attracted to adult males. It was a sign of dominant masculinity and a male 'privilege' for an adult male citizen to use a submissive partner for sex- whether the person was a young male or a slave or a woman. You probably aren't aware that pederasty was actually illegal under Athenian law, as was adultery.

As for the New Testament:

In his first letter to the Corinthians, Paul used the word arsenokoités (ἀρσενοκοίτης), which never meant "homosexuals" in any Greek secular writings at that time or since - despite the prejudiced and poor 'scholarship' of some conservative translators since the 1950's.

Paul could have used several Greek words if he had meant to refer to "homosexuals". He didn't.
Like I said...Do the research...You got it wrong...Read up on what pederaiste is...
The word "homosexual" didn't appear in English Bibles until 1946 | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
 
Old 12-25-2011, 02:08 PM
 
Location: US
22,710 posts, read 11,507,360 times
Reputation: 1332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
Doesn't refer to gay people, and doesn't apply to Christians. If we're going to follow the Torah, then you should be executed for breaking the Sabbath, and your clothing is an abomination unto God.
Yea, it does...Are you stating that the Hebrew God and the Christian God are not the same God?....

Last edited by Miss Blue; 12-25-2011 at 04:02 PM..
 
Old 12-25-2011, 02:11 PM
 
Location: US
22,710 posts, read 11,507,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
I'm a Messianic Jew, but keep it up with your self-righteous, judgmental attitude!
Well, I am a Jew by blood...I know what the Mesianics believe...So, whatever...
 
Old 12-25-2011, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Western, Colorado
1,956 posts, read 1,797,286 times
Reputation: 1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Like I said...Do the research...You got it wrong...Read up on what pederaiste is...
The word "homosexual" didn't appear in English Bibles until 1946 | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Why should we believe the definition provided by an evangelical / fundamentalist organization versus biblical scholars?
 
Old 12-25-2011, 05:49 PM
 
14,685 posts, read 7,697,260 times
Reputation: 6306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Well, I am a Jew by blood...I know what the Mesianics believe...So, whatever...
I'm a Jew by blood too, do you want a cookie?
 
Old 12-25-2011, 05:51 PM
 
14,685 posts, read 7,697,260 times
Reputation: 6306
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Yea, it does...Are you stating that the Hebrew God and the Christian God are not the same God?....
Sexual orientation was not discovered until the 19th Century, so no it did not refer to gays. The majority of those in Biblical cultures who engaged in same-sex behavior were heterosexuals.
 
Old 12-25-2011, 07:32 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,281,464 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
I'm a Jew by blood too, do you want a cookie?
Is it Kosher? Me like cookies.....
 
Old 12-25-2011, 07:34 PM
 
3,337 posts, read 2,281,464 times
Reputation: 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
Sexual orientation was not discovered until the 19th Century, so no it did not refer to gays. The majority of those in Biblical cultures who engaged in same-sex behavior were heterosexuals.
Gay use to mean happy. Are you saying that happiness went away when the word was changed around the 70's?

Labels don't define acts, they either confuse reality, or make it clearer, depending on the definer/interpreter.

The Holy spirit is the one that leads to truth, words are too fungible.
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