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Old 01-01-2010, 01:40 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,745,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleLove08 View Post
Be an atheist. There is no god.
Not so easy for some of us PurpleLove--certainly not for me, nor do I think for CeeCee.

The Hound of Heaven

I fled Him down the nights and down the days
I fled Him down the arches of the years
I fled Him down the labyrinthine ways
Of my own mind, and in the midst of tears
I hid from him, and under running laughter.
Up vistaed hopes I sped and shot precipitated
Adown titanic glooms of chasmed hears
From those strong feet that followed, followed after
But with unhurrying chase and unperturbed pace,
Deliberate speed, majestic instancy,
They beat, and a Voice beat,
More instant than the feet:
All things betray thee who betrayest me.

I pleaded, outlaw--wise by many a hearted casement,
curtained red, trellised with inter-twining charities,
For though I knew His love who followed,
Yet was I sore adread, lest having Him,
I should have nought beside.
But if one little casement parted wide,
The gust of his approach would clash it to.
Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue.
Across the margent of the world I fled,
And troubled the gold gateways of the stars,
Smiting for shelter on their clanged bars,
Fretted to dulcet jars and silvern chatter
The pale ports of the moon.

I said to Dawn --- be sudden, to Eve --- be soon,
With thy young skiey blossoms heap me over
From this tremendous Lover.
Float thy vague veil about me lest He see.
I tempted all His servitors but to find
My own betrayal in their constancy,
In faith to Him, their fickleness to me,
Their traitorous trueness and their loyal deceit.
To all swift things for swiftness did I sue,
Clung to the whistling mane of every wind,
But whether they swept, smoothly fleet,
The long savannahs of the blue,
Or whether, thunder-driven,
They clanged His chariot thwart a heaven,
Plashy with flying lightnings round the spurn of their feet,
Fear wist not to evade as Love wist to pursue.
Still with unhurrying chase and unperturbed pace
Deliberate speed, majestic instancy,
Came on the following feet, and a Voice above their beat:
Nought shelters thee who wilt not shelter Me.

I sought no more that after which I strayed
In face of Man or Maid.
But still within the little childrens' eyes
Seems something, something that replies,
They at least are for me, surely for me.
But just as their young eyes grew sudden fair,
With dawning answers there,
Their angel plucked them from me by the hair.
Come then, ye other children, Nature's
Share with me, said I, your delicate fellowship.
Let me greet you lip to lip,
Let me twine with you caresses,
Wantoning with our Lady Mother's vagrant tresses,
Banqueting with her in her wind walled palace,
Underneath her azured dai:s,
Quaffing, as your taintless way is,
From a chalice, lucent weeping out of the dayspring.

So it was done.
I in their delicate fellowship was one.
Drew the bolt of Nature's secrecies,
I knew all the swift importings on the wilful face of skies,
I knew how the clouds arise,
Spume d of the wild sea-snortings.
All that's born or dies,
Rose and drooped with,
Made them shapers of mine own moods, or wailful, or Divine.
With them joyed and was bereaven.
I was heavy with the Even,
when she lit her glimmering tapers round the day's dead sanctities.
I laughed in the morning's eyes.
I triumphed and I saddened with all weather,
Heaven and I wept together,
and its sweet tears were salt with mortal mine.
Against the red throb of its sunset heart,
I laid my own to beat
And share commingling heat.

But not by that, by that was eased my human smart.
In vain my tears were wet on Heaven's grey cheek.
For ah! we know what each other says,
these things and I; In sound I speak,
Their sound is but their stir, they speak by silences.
Nature, poor step-dame, cannot slake my drouth.
Let her, if she would owe me
Drop yon blue-bosomed veil of sky
And show me the breasts o' her tenderness.
Never did any milk of hers once bless my thirsting mouth.
Nigh and nigh draws the chase, with unperturbe d pace
Deliberate speed, majestic instancy,
And past those noise d feet, a Voice comes yet more fleet:
Lo, nought contentst thee who content'st nought Me.

Naked, I wait thy Love's uplifted stroke. My harness, piece by piece,
thou'st hewn from me
And smitten me to my knee,
I am defenceless, utterly.
I slept methinks, and awoke.
And slowly gazing, find me stripped in sleep.
In the lustihead of my young powers,
I shook the pillaring hours,
and pulled my life upon me.
Grimed with smears,
I stand amidst the dust o' the mounded years--
My mangled youth lies dead beneath the heap.
My days have crackled and gone up in smoke,
Have puffed and burst like sunstarts on a stream.
Yeah, faileth now even dream the dreamer
and the lute, the lutanist.
Even the linked fantasies in whose blossomy twist,
I swung the Earth, a trinket at my wrist,
Have yielded, cords of all too weak

For Earth, with heavy grief so overplussed.
Ah! is thy Love indeed a weed,
albeit an Amaranthine weed,
Suffering no flowers except its own to mount?
Ah! must, Designer Infinite,
Ah! must thou char the wood 'ere thou canst limn with it ?
My freshness spent its wavering
i' the dust.
And now my heart is as a broken fount,
Wherein tear-drippings stagnate, spilt down ever
From the dank thoughts that shiver upon the sighful branches of my
mind.

Such is. What is to be ?
The pulp so bitter, how shall taste the rind ?
I dimly guess what Time in mists confounds,
Yet ever and anon, a trumpet sounds
From the hid battlements of Eternity.
Those shaken mists a space unsettle,
Then round the half-glimpse d turrets, slowly wash again.
But not 'ere Him who summoneth
I first have seen, enwound
With glooming purpureal; Cypress crowned.
His name I know, and what his trumpet saith.
Whether Man's Heart or Life it be that yield thee harvest,
Must thy harvest fields be dunged with rotten death ?

Now of that long pursuit,
Comes at hand the bruit.
That Voice is round me like a bursting Sea:
And is thy Earth so marred,
Shattered in shard on shard?
Lo, all things fly thee, for thou fliest me.
Strange, piteous, futile thing;
Wherefore should any set thee love apart?
Seeing none but I makes much of Naught (He said).
And human love needs human meriting ---
How hast thou merited,
Of all Man's clotted clay, the dingiest clot.
Alack! Thou knowest not
How little worthy of any love thou art.
Whom wilt thou find to love ignoble thee,
Save me, save only me?
All which I took from thee, I did'st but take,
Not for thy harms,
But just that thou might'st seek it in my arms.
All which thy childs mistake fancies as lost,
I have stored for thee at Home.
Rise, clasp my hand, and come.
Halts by me that Footfall.
Is my gloom, after all,
Shade of His hand, outstretched caressingly?
Ah, Fondest, Blindest, Weakest,
I am He whom thou seekest.
Thou dravest Love from thee who dravest Me.
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Old 01-01-2010, 02:07 PM
 
9 posts, read 11,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
WOW! that is honest, that you have no love for God ....

I haven't told Him yet. That's just between me and the rest of you Forum members.
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Old 01-01-2010, 02:38 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,556,545 times
Reputation: 1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Wow. Love your analysis -- it's very logical, but faith isn't logical.

You put into words much of what I have felt over the course of my life. I realized one day that I cannot feel that God loves me, even though that's what we are supposed to believe. I feel cheated. I've felt far more often that God is just out to get me. I turned away from religion, but the longing is still always there. I wish I could believe as some people seem to, but I just don't and I can't force myself to feel what I don't feel.

This sounds completely retarded but I started to sometimes pray to "Real God", as opposed to the mean one who I always felt abandoned me. Doesn't always work, but it does sometimes. Sometimes I can get to a place where I can ignore everything else and reach that level of communication.

Right now I'm in a place where I only pray for guidance, viewing God as some do their intuition and putting it into practice by focusing on a specific need or question, asking, and then trying to let it go and just wait for the answer. It works most of the time and I've actually had some fun/amusing responses. I'm also trying to practice gratitude daily. For example, I'm 51 and have always had financial problems, often due to others that I've "done the right thing" for per Christianity's tenets and gotten screwed by. I've never owned any real estate of my own, but now I make more money and can see the possibility of getting my own condo or a little house. However, every month or so something unexpected arises that causes me to have to use the money I'm struggling to hang onto for a down payment. I get angry, because it seems so many people just get everything handed to them and I can't seem to catch a break. To counteract that, I'm forcing myself to be aware of what I do have rather than what I don't have--I have a job, I can pay my rent, I have heat, I have food, I have a car--so many don't even have any of those things.

I still want a house of my own and I'm still angry that my prayers for that are being denied, but the gratitude-practicing helps alleviate the anger. I have more than many others do.

I do not go to church or study scripture anymore. I can quote the Bible upside down and sideways, but what it says just often is not true for me. I don't get anything out of it but a feeling of unrest and anger. So, I'm down to those two practical applications right now--guidance and gratitude.

As you can see, I don't have a comprehensive answer for you, but right now those two things are working for me spiritually, so I thought I would offer them.
The God of the bible isn`t the God that is portayed on TV. Sometimes I think that people in the western world and the industrialized nations have a distorted view of God. We have lived in a land of prosperity for so long that we don`t know what it`s like to really suffer and depend on God. We think that having things makes us happy. If God loved me,why can`t I have a nicer car or a bigger house? Why can`t I own a home when all of my friends do. Why can`t I land a good job when all of my friends have good jobs,etc. But those are carnal physical desires that we have. Those are things that are pleasing to self. They have nothing to do with God. The most spiritual of men that have ever lived were men who had nothing. Material possessions only get in the way between you and God.
We watch the slick salesmen on TV sell God and tell you God wants to bless you and make you rich. But those people have no idea about God. Money and material possessions will only inhibit your walk with God. When you die,those things are gone and you are left to face God for eternity. What is your time on earth compared to forevermore? Look at a lot of the kings,rulers,and wealthy people of Jesus`s day. They were not Godly men. It was the poor and dowtrodden that were close to him. This is a lesson I have had to learn the hard way.
I heard someone say one time that if you have all you want and there is no trouble in your life then I would be worried,because God is probably far from you. But if you are hurting and suffering then God is near.
It is hard to live in a country where we have all of the luxuries of life and still be close to God. We want more. When we lose our house or car or some other wordly possession we think..where is God? But millions upon millions of people in this world have nothing. No food,no clean water,no warm clothes,nothing. We put so much emphasis on money,what someone does for a living,how big of a house they have etc.,when it really doesn`t mean squat. But because we are surrounded by people that have nice things or own a home or drive a nice car,we feel the desire to want it too.
It makes our desire for wordly possessions stronger. When we have things,it makes us feel superior to others. It builds up pride within us. Sometimes it is a very subtle pride,but it is pride nonetheless.
There are some people who can have wordly wealth and still have their heart right with God. But I believe those people are few and far between. Most of us think we can handle wealth and it wouldn`t change us. We don`t think pride would build up inside of us. But you walk a very dangerous line when you have wealth and wordly goods.
It seems you have a lot to be thankful for. You have a good job, pay your bills and have a warm place to lay your head and food to eat. In this economy,a lot of people don`t have that. In other places around the world,they have never had that. I recently lost my job due to the economy. I thank God for family and friends and his grace and mercy in my life. Perhaps I had it too good. I had a nice home,nice cars,etc. Maybe God is reeling me back in. For that I`m blessed and thankful. Your life on this earth will be over in a heartbeat.It`s not what you have because all of that will be gone. People like donald trump,william gates,warren buffet,etc they may appear to have it all. But they will only have it all for a very short time. Then they will face the Almighty and probably would have traded it all for the reward that they may miss out on.
When you see a homeless person, or a beggar on the street, that`s where God is. He isn`t in boardrooms and corporate offices. So just keep your eyes on God and know that he doesn`t promise you an easy life,a rewarding life,a big house,or nice car. But he will never leave you. Even in times of dispair and trouble. You may still go through it but he will give you the peace and strength to deal with it. That`s the thing,also. people think God saves them from trouble or suffering. God doesn`t keep you from trouble. We have to face it and go through it. He just helps us get through it. Think of the parable about the rich man and the beggar. The rich man had all the accolades and friends he could want in this life. The begggar had nothing. But when their short life was over,who really was better off?
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:15 PM
 
44,137 posts, read 44,200,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
The God of the bible isn`t the God that is portayed on TV. Sometimes I think that people in the western world and the industrialized nations have a distorted view of God. We have lived in a land of prosperity for so long that we don`t know what it`s like to really suffer and depend on God. We think that having things makes us happy. If God loved me,why can`t I have a nicer car or a bigger house? Why can`t I own a home when all of my friends do. Why can`t I land a good job when all of my friends have good jobs,etc. But those are carnal physical desires that we have. Those are things that are pleasing to self. They have nothing to do with God. The most spiritual of men that have ever lived were men who had nothing. Material possessions only get in the way between you and God.
We watch the slick salesmen on TV sell God and tell you God wants to bless you and make you rich. But those people have no idea about God. Money and material possessions will only inhibit your walk with God. When you die,those things are gone and you are left to face God for eternity. What is your time on earth compared to forevermore? Look at a lot of the kings,rulers,and wealthy people of Jesus`s day. They were not Godly men. It was the poor and dowtrodden that were close to him. This is a lesson I have had to learn the hard way.
I heard someone say one time that if you have all you want and there is no trouble in your life then I would be worried,because God is probably far from you. But if you are hurting and suffering then God is near.
It is hard to live in a country where we have all of the luxuries of life and still be close to God. We want more. When we lose our house or car or some other wordly possession we think..where is God? But millions upon millions of people in this world have nothing. No food,no clean water,no warm clothes,nothing. We put so much emphasis on money,what someone does for a living,how big of a house they have etc.,when it really doesn`t mean squat. But because we are surrounded by people that have nice things or own a home or drive a nice car,we feel the desire to want it too.
It makes our desire for wordly possessions stronger. When we have things,it makes us feel superior to others. It builds up pride within us. Sometimes it is a very subtle pride,but it is pride nonetheless.
There are some people who can have wordly wealth and still have their heart right with God. But I believe those people are few and far between. Most of us think we can handle wealth and it wouldn`t change us. We don`t think pride would build up inside of us. But you walk a very dangerous line when you have wealth and wordly goods.
It seems you have a lot to be thankful for. You have a good job, pay your bills and have a warm place to lay your head and food to eat. In this economy,a lot of people don`t have that. In other places around the world,they have never had that. I recently lost my job due to the economy. I thank God for family and friends and his grace and mercy in my life. Perhaps I had it too good. I had a nice home,nice cars,etc. Maybe God is reeling me back in. For that I`m blessed and thankful. Your life on this earth will be over in a heartbeat.It`s not what you have because all of that will be gone. People like donald trump,william gates,warren buffet,etc they may appear to have it all. But they will only have it all for a very short time. Then they will face the Almighty and probably would have traded it all for the reward that they may miss out on.
When you see a homeless person, or a beggar on the street, that`s where God is. He isn`t in boardrooms and corporate offices. So just keep your eyes on God and know that he doesn`t promise you an easy life,a rewarding life,a big house,or nice car. But he will never leave you. Even in times of dispair and trouble. You may still go through it but he will give you the peace and strength to deal with it. That`s the thing,also. people think God saves them from trouble or suffering. God doesn`t keep you from trouble. We have to face it and go through it. He just helps us get through it. Think of the parable about the rich man and the beggar. The rich man had all the accolades and friends he could want in this life. The begggar had nothing. But when their short life was over,who really was better off?
You are missing my point (and apparently did not even read or comprehend my post, lol). My wanting a house has nothing to do with my belief or lack of it. It was simply an example to illustrate that practicing gratitude has its benefits. My basic needs are simple and have nothing to do with wanting luxuries. I've been broke more often than not, but I've always gotten what I've needed. Again, that was not the point.

And you aren't telling me everything I haven't heard 1000 times before. I "know" God is supposed to always be there. I "know" all the verses, all the rote, all the repetitive phrases of Christianity, yada yada yada. I've said all the prayers, asked God to come into my heart, begged for peace.

I do not feel it.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:41 PM
 
148 posts, read 209,818 times
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Just because you don't feel it don't mean you don't have it.


Keep looking for Him, He's closer than you think.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:59 PM
 
44,137 posts, read 44,200,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cece2010 View Post
Thank you for your input MightyQueen.

I think I know what you mean when you say that you feel “cheated”. In their zeal to witness, many Christians paint an unrealistic picture of what it means to have a relationship with God. They broadcast only the love and the joy, and hide the pain and disappointments. I’m sure you’ve heard of Mother Teresa of Calcutta. One of the advisers that she confided in recently published a book consisting of letters that she wrote to colleagues and superiors over 66 years. The book is called “Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light”. According to the book's publisher (you can find it on Amazon.com):

…. Although perpetually cheery in public, the Teresa of the letters lived in a state of deep and abiding spiritual pain. In more than 40 communications, many of which have never before been published, she bemoans the “dryness”, “darkness”, “loneliness”, and “torture” she is undergoing. She compares the experience to hell and at one point says it has driven her to doubt the existence of heaven and even of God. She is acutely aware of the discrepancy between her inner state and her public demeanor. “The smile,” she writes, is “a mask” or “a cloak that covers everything.”

Similarly, she wonders whether she is engaged in verbal deception. “I spoke as if my very heart was in love with God — tender, personal love,” she remarks to an adviser. “If you were [there], you would have said, ‘What hypocrisy.’”

In another letter, Mother Teresa writes: “So many unanswered questions live within me afraid to uncover them — because of the blasphemy — If there be God — please forgive me — When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven — there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives & hurt my very soul. — I am told God loves me — and yet the reality of darkness & coldness & emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul. Did I make a mistake in surrendering blindly to the Call of the Sacred Heart?”


The point I was making with this example, MightyQueen, is that even though this aspect of religion does not get talked about much (even Mother Teresa wasn't too keen on having her letters published) I believe it is commonly experienced. Before I became saved, my mother would go on and on about the love and peace that she was enjoying in Christ. It was only after I became saved, and turned to her for advice in a difficult circumstance, that she revealed her own confusion and unanswered prayers. I felt like saying, “What? You never mentioned any of this before! That’s false advertising you know.”

But back to the matter at hand. I have ceased to ponder the whys and the wherefores. All I am interested in now is to find out how can I make my peace with God, and quietly move on. I don't plan on leading any choirs, or heading any missions, but (like you, MightyQueen) I miss Him.

I just reserved Come Be My Light at my local Borders. Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 01-01-2010, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
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This thread is now reopened..Please refer to the Op and stay on topic. He/she is a Christian and is seeking advice on spiritual matters..Some good posts here, lets continue
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Old 01-02-2010, 12:31 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cece2010 View Post
I haven't told Him yet. That's just between me and the rest of you Forum members.
Well, hate to bust your bubble, He already knew that you would have these feelings before you ever experienced it.

Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;
I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

God knew you would get to this point when He formed you in your mother's womb, but He created you anyway, because He wants for you to learn how to love Him.

There is nothing that we can say that will make you love God, that is something that you will have to work on with the Lord. That is a journey you will have to venture on your own. We can give you our opinions and advise but the rest is up to you and if you really want to love the person that gives you breath everyday and holds your life in His hands.

What ever choice you make that is your decision to make and your journey to explore.
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Old 01-02-2010, 12:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
You are missing my point (and apparently did not even read or comprehend my post, lol).
Well, I read it. But it`s possible I didn`t comprehend it.
But this is what you wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I feel cheated. I've felt far more often that God is just out to get me. I get angry, because it seems so many people just get everything handed to them and I can't seem to catch a break.
I still want a house of my own and I'm still angry that my prayers for that are being denied
So your own words express that you are angry with God. You are angry with God because you feel cheated,you feel God is out to get you,you are somewhat jealous of how easily things come to others, and you are angry with God because he is denying your prayers about the house. These are your own words,not mine! So my point was we shouldn`t be concerned with material possessions. Obviously that is at least PART of your anger towards God. I`m just quoting your own words.
Quote:
My wanting a house has nothing to do with my belief or lack of it. It was simply an example to illustrate that practicing gratitude has its benefits.
This thread really isn`t about belief. It`s about Anger toward God. You and the OP have belief in God but you are ANGRY because you don`t seem to be getting the material things you think you deserve. I think we all have felt that way.But again,it goes back to the point I made in my earlier post about material things,etc.

Quote:
And you aren't telling me everything I haven't heard 1000 times before. I "know" God is supposed to always be there. I "know" all the verses, all the rote, all the repetitive phrases of Christianity, yada yada yada. I've said all the prayers, asked God to come into my heart, begged for peace.

I do not feel it.
I understand what you are saying.I understand you have heard all of these things before. But I don`t think you are really meditating on them. I think you are denying your own words. YOU SAY you are ANGRY with God because of the the house thing.
YOU SAY you are ANGRY with God because you feel he is out to get you.
YOU SAY you are ANGRY with God because others seem to get THINGS easily.
Again, this is what you wrote,not me. Then you turn around in another post and say the house and material things really have nothing to do with how you feel..huh? You are angry with God and a lot of it has to do with material possessions and what others have compared to you. I just pointed out in my earlier post that we should try not to be angry with God about material things. When we base our feelings for God (in this case anger) on material things or lack of it,then I feel we will be frustrated. Because material things only get in the way between us and God. That was my point. In other words, you want to feel closer to God,but the very thing that seems to be keeping you from feeling closer,is the very thing you are angry at him about. That`s my point. Material things stand in the way between us and God. I`m just saying you have to think differently about material things and what God is all about. Then maybe the anger will go away and you will feel the peace that you long for. But you first have to acknowledge the reason for your anger.
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Old 01-02-2010, 01:07 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,556,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cece2010 View Post
At one time, I was saved for seven years. For the past four years, this has not been the case. I now want to make my peace with God. I don’t understand why things happened the way they did, but it is all history now, and cannot be changed. Going forward, I want to have a relationship with God that is respectful of Him. As His creature, I want to give Him the worship that is due to Him.

Here is what I know:

(1) God is almighty.

(2) God is awesome.

(3) God is good. He is not out to cause harm to me in particular.


Here is my problem:

(1) I don’t trust Him any more. When I press myself to do so, I get angry. (I trusted Him blindly for many years, and things turned out very, very badly.)

(2) I don’t love Him. (I don’t hate Him; rather, there is an absence of love.)

(3) I don’t think He cares about me (ie, He is ambivalent. He is far off and distant, pre-occupied with other things).


This is causing the following problems:

- As a Christian, love motivates you to follow God's ways. If there is no love (as in my case), there is no motivation.

- When I get down on my knees to pray, there is no area of my life that I am able to share with Him. For example, since He is ambivalent about me, He is unlikely to respond to my needs. Since I have such strong negative feelings to messages regarding trust, I am likely to be impatient during church sermons or private Bible study.


As I mentioned above: I want to make peace with God, and respect and worship Him. I have exercised my free will by making the conscious decision to follow God. I just don't think my feelings will catch up. It is simply not humanly possible to force oneself to trust someone. Does anyone have any practical advice on how I can proceed?
Hey CeCe,
I think when we concentrate on the fact that God loves us and he is going to reward us beyond anything we can imagine,then we may have a different outlook on God. We live in the here and now. We compare our life with others around us. But this life is just a vapor in time.
You say you don`t trust him. That obviously has to do with something that happened to you that was unfair or worse. It is hard,I know, to trust God when things happen to us or against us. Others seem to get away with hurting us while we are left to suffer. But people will let you down. People will hurt you. But God is the one who created you and he has magnificent things in store for you. I`m not talking about this life but in the life to come.
The apostles suffered horribly. They were beaten,stoned,crucified,isolated,hungry,cold,etc. But they persevered. They kept their eyes on God. Knowing that this life is brief. There will come a day when we will walk with him and our loved ones. We will walk and talk with the apostles and great men of God. We will share in God`s riches as sons and daughters. We will have the peace we long for. This world is not my home,I`m just passing through. May God bless you and grant you the peace you are searching for.
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