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Old 01-07-2010, 04:02 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
4,151 posts, read 8,729,563 times
Reputation: 3301

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
That`s ironic coming from a church follower. What is the reputation of the christian church. Does self righteousness and holier than thou ring a bell?


If it`s the word being preached. But so many church`s aren`t preaching God`s word. Judging by your belief in tithing and desiring money,I`d say your church might fall into that catergory.


I cringe because most of the time it means more people are being misled.


You keep saying that. But then you always go on to say how important money is and how you work to make more of it.

See,that`s the false teaching. People don`t need a big building to congregate in. They don`t need a staff. It becomes more of a business than anything else. If a church is that big,then half the people don`t even know each other. So we have a church having 3 different services on Sunday and different people coming to different services. A church where most of the people don`t even know each other. I`ve met people that have gone to the same church for years and they didn`t even know the other went there.


This is the holier than thou attitude. Thinking YOU are reaching people FOR Jesus. God does the drawing and saving,not you,not the church. God controls who comes to him and when. He doesn`t need big buildings,big cars, elaborate sound systems,state of the art video equipment,etc. That`s our flesh making excuses for us having those things.
I have no problem with people meeting in a church. That is not my point.
Just like I have no problem with any group meeting and enjoying each other`s company,paying their dues to keep the club together,take trips,have a softball team,going on retreats,etc.
The problem I have is when we say all this STUFF,all of these MATERIAL things we have,are things that we NEED,THINGS that God needs. God doesn`t need a huge church. He doesn`t need state of the art buildings and equipment.This Sunday on your way home from church,when you`re all dressed up and heading out to your favorite resturaunt for Sunday dinner,drive through the city and look all around you. The people you see standing on the corner with a sign in their hand or bundled up next to a building slumped over, those are what God wants . Not the huge elaborate multi million dollar building you just came from.
I wasn't attacking you, nor will I. The way you lead your life and your relationship with Jesus is your business and yours alone.

But you seem to be REALLY concerned with trying to put down other Christians and their methods. Only God knows our hearts. You don't, so I'd be very careful in trying to bring down other Christians and judging them because they're not living down to your standards.

Nothing more to say to you.
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Old 01-07-2010, 04:18 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,558,631 times
Reputation: 1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcrawford View Post
I trust God enough to believe what he says in his word. Again, it's not about money. If you're close to God, that's awesome. Don't try to call yourself a better Christian because you're poor though.
How many times Kevin,how many times do I have to say it. You are not reading my post. I, I want to repeat that I,I,I,I have incluided myself in everything I wrote. I have included myself with those that don`t do enough. Should I say it again? Did you get it this time. I said me,myself and I. It seems I have struck a nerve with you and maybe your conscious is talking to you about the emphasis you put on money.
Quote:
Yes, money is dangerous, because it can lead to corruption. But it doesn't HAVE to. Much good can be done with much money.
That`s true. Much good can be done with money. But from a christian perspective,how much is too much for you? At what point does a christian say, you know,I have enough. I don`t need anymore material things. This house is big enough. My car is nice enough. My clothes are nice enough. The money I have in my retirement account is enough. My children have enough. I take enough vacations,etc.When do you as a christian finally say,everything I earn above and beyond this point is just want and not need?

Quote:
Jesus teaches us to be good stewards of His money (it IS His). He didn't teach us to be fools with it. If we have money, we're to bless people with it.
I totally agree. We are to give freely. But most of the people I see,give to get. They tithe to get something. They give a certain amount but keep much more than they need for themselves. Sometimes giving a little just helps us feel better about all the extra we keep and hord for ourselves.

Quote:
As for selling everything to follow God, if I truly feel that God is calling me to do that, I'll do it in a second. But some random poster on a message board trying to justify his lack of funds isn't someone I'm going to look to for spiritual advice.
I`m not asking you too. But the more you post the more it seems you are trying to justify your excess of funds and talk about how much of a great christian you are because you tithe a little but keep most for yourself.
Quote:
The holier than thou thing doesn't work with me, because I know where I stand with the Lord and I know what I'm supposed to do. If it makes you feel better to try and discredit people's Christianity, you're welcome to keep doing that. But I'd pray about that first, because I'd bet Jesus isn't keen on people trying to bring down other Christians.
This is always the line that christians will pull out. Don`t judge me. That is the famous line. But once again,nobody has judged you. Perhaps you are judging yourself. I`ve never judged you personally. But for some reason you keep talking about being judged. Weren`t you the one judging people for not tithing? Only God knows our heart,my friend. Just ask youself,could you get by on less? Could you downsize your house
and still live a great life? Do you really need all of the things you buy? If the answer is no,then why do we keep these things when people are starving to death? To use your words, maybe Jesus isn`t too keen on that either. I would ask all of us,next time we are sitting in front of our fireplaces all snug and warm and you see those commercials of the starving children in Africa, ask yourself if you really are doing all that you can. Ask yourself if you really are the best christian you can be. Obviously,kevin, you believe you are doing all that you can to feed the hungry. But I shamefully admit that I am not.
Quote:
I truly DO hope that you have a great relationship with Jesus, but don't worry about mine. Worry about yourself.
I am worried about myself,Kevin. May God have mercy on me,a poor sinner.
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Old 01-07-2010, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
823 posts, read 1,005,761 times
Reputation: 167
Spm62 has made me realize that I, he, we could do more. In North America we are, for the most part (not all but most) materialistic and have more than we need but it is never enough.

Myself included.....so the good thing about this post is that some of us may come to realize we can do more, some of us may realize that we are doing enough.

For me, it has been a bit of a slap in the face, and I am not ashamed to admit it. That I should be doing more.
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Old 01-07-2010, 04:44 PM
Status: "President Trump...still sounds good!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
13,369 posts, read 7,024,605 times
Reputation: 1373
Quote:
Originally Posted by SisterKat View Post
Right off the bat, the first question is what is the Church doing with the money we have already? This is 103 billion were talking about here? Are we conquering world hunger. Do all the hidden tribes in Africa have printed bibles in their language? Are we taking care of the widows? Sure, there is pressure to give more and more, but are we fiscally responsible and efficient with the resources we are receiving already?
Yes, yes, & yes. Do a little research.
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Old 01-07-2010, 04:56 PM
 
2 posts, read 2,186 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcrawford View Post
The real problem is that only about 20% of Christians tithe regularly. If we all tithed like we're supposed to, there would be no homelessness. No hunger.

There ARE Churches that waste. But there are MANY more that give infinitely more. We can find problems with any organization. That's between them and God. But if every Christian tithed like they were supposed to, you'd see an unbelievable amount of good done.
Kev, you missed the point. 130 billion should be enough money to get an unbelievable amount of good done.

Stats don't lie. "85 percent of all church activity and funds is directed toward the internal operations of the congregation”. Even if we had an extra 200 billion, this percentage might decrease a few points, because we will always be good at finding ways to spend any surplus on ourselves.

Luke 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

If we use 85% of 130 billion on ourselves, what makes you think that we deserve more?
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Old 01-07-2010, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,881 posts, read 4,831,558 times
Reputation: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
That`s ironic coming from a church follower. What is the reputation of the christian church. Does self righteousness and holier than thou ring a bell?


If it`s the word being preached. But so many church`s aren`t preaching God`s word. Judging by your belief in tithing and desiring money,I`d say your church might fall into that catergory.


I cringe because most of the time it means more people are being misled.


You keep saying that. But then you always go on to say how important money is and how you work to make more of it.

See,that`s the false teaching. People don`t need a big building to congregate in. They don`t need a staff. It becomes more of a business than anything else. If a church is that big,then half the people don`t even know each other. So we have a church having 3 different services on Sunday and different people coming to different services. A church where most of the people don`t even know each other. I`ve met people that have gone to the same church for years and they didn`t even know the other went there.


This is the holier than thou attitude. Thinking YOU are reaching people FOR Jesus. God does the drawing and saving,not you,not the church. God controls who comes to him and when. He doesn`t need big buildings,big cars, elaborate sound systems,state of the art video equipment,etc. That`s our flesh making excuses for us having those things.
I have no problem with people meeting in a church. That is not my point.
Just like I have no problem with any group meeting and enjoying each other`s company,paying their dues to keep the club together,take trips,have a softball team,going on retreats,etc.
The problem I have is when we say all this STUFF,all of these MATERIAL things we have,are things that we NEED,THINGS that God needs. God doesn`t need a huge church. He doesn`t need state of the art buildings and equipment.This Sunday on your way home from church,when you`re all dressed up and heading out to your favorite resturaunt for Sunday dinner,drive through the city and look all around you. The people you see standing on the corner with a sign in their hand or bundled up next to a building slumped over, those are what God wants . Not the huge elaborate multi million dollar building you just came from.
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Old 01-07-2010, 05:46 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,558,631 times
Reputation: 1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by SisterKat View Post
Spm62 has made me realize that I, he, we could do more. In North America we are, for the most part (not all but most) materialistic and have more than we need but it is never enough.

Myself included.....so the good thing about this post is that some of us may come to realize we can do more, some of us may realize that we are doing enough.

For me, it has been a bit of a slap in the face, and I am not ashamed to admit it. That I should be doing more.
That`s the point of the whole thing. I KNOW I DON`T DO ENOUGH! Honestly,I don`t know anyone who truly does ALL that they could. We are supposed to love God with all of our heart, mind, and soul. That verse has always amazed me. Who can honestly say they really truly do that. Think of how much a person loves their children,spouse,or grandchild. We certainly make sure they are cared for,as well we should. But the point is excess.
If a person lives in a nice big house,drives a couple of nice cars,takes fun vacations, wears nice jewelry,has a closet full of shoes and expensive clothes,and thinks they are doing all they can to help those in need, then I would beg to differ.. If they have all of those things and more and feel they truly are loving God with all of their heart ,mind, and soul,then I would beg to differ. But it get`s me when they have all of that,act like they are so spiritual, and such great christians and talk about tithing to get more. Everyone has to live with themselves. If a person believes they are doing all they can and couldn`t possibly do more,than God bless them. But I`m personally ashamed of how I have lived my life with regards to material things and not giving as I should. I`ve told friends as much. I`m going to try to do better and ask God for his forgiveness.
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Old 01-07-2010, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
823 posts, read 1,005,761 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Yes, yes, & yes. Do a little research.
These are not my words but words from a link provided in my recent post about the stats of RESEARCH!
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Old 01-07-2010, 05:50 PM
Status: "President Trump...still sounds good!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
13,369 posts, read 7,024,605 times
Reputation: 1373
Quote:
Originally Posted by stewardship View Post
Kev, you missed the point. 130 billion should be enough money to get an unbelievable amount of good done.

Stats don't lie. "85 percent of all church activity and funds is directed toward the internal operations of the congregation”. Even if we had an extra 200 billion, this percentage might decrease a few points, because we will always be good at finding ways to spend any surplus on ourselves.

Luke 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

If we use 85% of 130 billion on ourselves, what makes you think that we deserve more?
And of that 85%, how much goes towards the "edification of the saints", or the praise of our God?
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
19,495 posts, read 18,735,489 times
Reputation: 8313
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
You obviously are missing the entire point here.
I don't think I'm missing the point and I don't think you are either. I think that you and I simply disagree as to whether God expects us to tithe.

Quote:
But churches these days try to use manipulation and guilt to get their congregation into giving to them by siting Mal 3.....they manipulate and guilt them by charging them with robbing God....THIS IS WRONG!!!! If you believe this practice is right....then open up your pocketbook and give away to them.
Churches are responsible to teach us what the Bible says and you already know that Malachi says. To me, it is one of the roles of the Church to instruct people. People who are not being obedient are naturally going to feel uncomfortable when their shortcomings are pointed out.

Quote:
Please site scripture where Jesus ever "Commanded" us to tithe....because I cannot find this scripture anywhere.
I already cited a scripture in which Jesus told the Pharisees that they were to do more than simply tithe. He told them there would other "weightier matters" which they should observe in addition to tithing. If you are looking for a verse which states, "And Jesus said, I command you to pay a full tithe," you're right that there isn't one. To me, if Jesus told His disciples to do something, it was a commandment. He didn't need to say "I command you." They knew it was what He wanted, and so should we.

Quote:
I don't call what I do a "tithe", I call what I do giving cheerfully to the people who need it most and to the people it was meant for.....not some Christian entertainment center. I give way more than 10% with my money, time & talents....it just doesn't go into the coffers of a church....it goes right to the source it was intended to go to.
I give tithes and offerings and I do both with a cheerful heart. When you say that your money "goes right to the source it was intended to go to," that's all fine and good, but if you do attend a church, who funded the building of that church (i.e. the physical building)? When you go there, is there electricity and water? Is it maintained? Who pays for that?Churches do require money in order to run, and that's the same whether they are small, independent congregations or the big mega-Churches I don't care for any more than you do. I know that all of my tithing doesn't go to care for the poor, and it doesn't bother me at all because I know it's going towards spreading the word of God, building places where I can go and worship and learn more about Him. Of course it's important that the money we contribute be spent wisely and not on unnecessary extravagances, but I don't see it as wrong that tithing funds are used in ways other than to help the poor.

Last edited by Katzpur; 01-07-2010 at 06:26 PM..
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