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Old 01-08-2010, 05:24 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,532,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
Because...I was not taught the difference between tithing, and giving, beforehand, that's why. I didn't have a clue what the word "tithe" meant, in the Old Testament, who it was given to, and what the purpose of it was. (a lot of Christians still don't) I was doing it because the church I was going to said it was the right thing to do, that it said so "somewhere in the Bible", so I went along with it. Everybody did, or at least they were "supposed" to...

RE: money to fund local church buildings: I guess you didn't read where I said we were to GIVE, because that is the New Covenant example? Did you miss that four-letter word GIVE? Give where, and to who? Why, your local church, or the ministry that is ministering to you, or where you feel the Lord is leading you to give to, that's who! There isn't anything wrong with supporting your local church!

In reading over all the posts and replies, I think what people are doing is misnaming their donations and giving as being a tithe, which it absolutely is not. Almost nobody tithes to a Levite priest anymore. Nobody shows up at their local church with 250 truckloads of fresh corn, or 250 sheep, because that is 10% of their increase! When did actual "tithing" change to cash money? (it didn't) (but the charlatans on TV caught onto the "tithe" gimmick real quick, didn't they?) (like: tithe to us, or you won't be blessed, you are robbing from God if you don't, etc, etc)
What most Christians are actually doing is giving to a pastor, or church ministry, which is fine, there is NOTHING wrong with that, but it's not a real tithe. Nothing in my reply said "don't give to your local church", or "don't support your local ministry"

If the difference between "tithe", and "giving", from a Bible perspective, is not taught, then the mis-representation of the word "tithe" lives on and on. And frankly, it has done just exactly that. It is apparent that the word "tithe" means something different to you, than it does to me. The term has been used so loosely, and so frequently, both in local churches, and on the media, that the word itself no longer means what it used to. If I am a logger, then to literally "tithe my increase" means I need to bring truckloads of logs and then go dump them in the backyard of the local church. (and Lord forbid, that my business be in recycling cow manure. ) And the pastor had better be a Levite priest. I have a feeling our church and pastors today would prefer cash, over logs, sheep, or corn. Bottem line: we give. Almost nobody really actually tithes!

Bud
Once again, I agree with Bud on this. In my earlier post I mentioned that if a person wants to give to their church so they can have a bigger building,better sound system,video equipment,softball field,etc. that`s fine. But call it what it is. Don`t say given that money to the church is helping the poor or part of tithing. It is no different ,as I said, then belonging to any secular group or club. They pay dues to have a building,take trips, have parites,etc. They have a president,treasurer,etc. But these people do it for free. However with the church,they have a payroll. Which is fine if that`s what you want. But that money is for you. It is to benefit the church and congregation. Maybe a very small portion goes to charities but the bulk of it goes for church payrolls and extra activities. Just like secualr clubs and groups give money to charities and have fundraisers,etc.
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Old 01-08-2010, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Walt Disney World
13,083 posts, read 6,871,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Once again, I agree with Bud on this. In my earlier post I mentioned that if a person wants to give to their church so they can have a bigger building,better sound system,video equipment,softball field,etc. that`s fine. But call it what it is. Don`t say given that money to the church is helping the poor or part of tithing. It is no different ,as I said, then belonging to any secular group or club. They pay dues to have a building,take trips, have parites,etc. They have a president,treasurer,etc. But these people do it for free. However with the church,they have a payroll. Which is fine if that`s what you want. But that money is for you. It is to benefit the church and congregation. Maybe a very small portion goes to charities but the bulk of it goes for church payrolls and extra activities. Just like secualr clubs and groups give money to charities and have fundraisers,etc.
My church of 4000 members & a paid staff of 25 does the following:

-opened a free medical & dental clinic for the poor

-opened a food pantry for the poor

-will soon begin a donated vehicle program for the poor

-operates several counseling groups for sexual abuse recovery, divorce recovery, drug & alchohol recovery

There's more, but you get the point. Individuals can't do these things.

*I should note that we take no credit for these actions. Jesus is Lord! We're merely faithful to God.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
27,831 posts, read 43,807,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
My church of 4000 members & a paid staff of 25 does the following:

-opened a free medical & dental clinic for the poor

-opened a food pantry for the poor

-will soon begin a donated vehicle program for the poor

-operates several counseling groups for sexual abuse recovery, divorce recovery, drug & alchohol recovery

There's more, but you get the point. Individuals can't do these things.

*I should note that we take no credit for these actions. Jesus is Lord! We're merely faithful to God.
It is wonderful that you give to a group that does these great works.

I likewise support one group that owns 23 Children's Hospitals nationwide, never billing the families.

Burn Centers, speech disorder centers, eye clinics, the list goes on.

But none of this has anything to do with the OP, tithing.

None of this are we told to be doing via the church.

You said that Jesus says so, but Jesus does not. Paul does not.

By all means it is a good work to help the poor, to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked. But do not twist your doctrine into thinking that it is somehow linked to tithing.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:42 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,532,162 times
Reputation: 1597
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
My church of 4000 members & a paid staff of 25 does the following:

-opened a free medical & dental clinic for the poor

-opened a food pantry for the poor

-will soon begin a donated vehicle program for the poor

-operates several counseling groups for sexual abuse recovery, divorce recovery, drug & alchohol recovery

There's more, but you get the point. Individuals can't do these things.

*I should note that we take no credit for these actions. Jesus is Lord! We're merely faithful to God.
That`s great. It truly is. The taxes I pay does the same thing. When I give to local charities,give blood,etc. it all goes to help those in need. There are a lot of secular groups,clubs,etc. that give of their time and resources to do the same thing. My point is,you can give money and or time in a lot of different ways,causes,and groups. Sounds like the money you give is going to a great cause. If you want to call that tithing ,then fine. I can tithe to any charity. My original point is that we talk about how great christians we are but we still have more than we need while people suffer. Would you say that you have more than you need? If you do, then why? Why do you have and maintain more than you NEED when people are suffering and dying? When I say you..I mean me,you,we all of us.
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Walt Disney World
13,083 posts, read 6,871,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
None of this are we told to be doing via the church.

You said that Jesus says so, but Jesus does not. Paul does not.

By all means it is a good work to help the poor, to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked. But do not twist your doctrine into thinking that it is somehow linked to tithing.
I never linked it to tithing. I linked it to belonging to a church, where we pay our pastor to lead us.

Nevertheless, I think we've beaten this horse sufficiently. I'll say no more to you on the matter.
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:48 PM
 
3,234 posts, read 4,773,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
IMO: There is no "tithe law" today under the new covenant. Tithing, what you are referring to, was under the law...the old covenant, which was replaced by the new covenant. Tithing is still commonly taught by many misled churches today, and by TV scam preachers, who can make a lot of money in a short time by dumping this old law onto believers backs.
Jesus never taught tithing to His disciples! What WAS taught in the N.T. was GIVING, out of a generous heart, and not because anyone "had to-or else". The disciples gave hugely: sold all that they had, and had everything in common! (talk about an example!) If we are not giving, then there is something wrong with our attitude. You give whatever percentage you feel led of God to do, not the legalistic 10%, or some such figure. Giving can also consist of your time, your skills, and your talents, such as volunteer work at your local church, senior center, jail ministry, assisted-living homes, etc. It's not that we "gotta give", it's that we should grow to the place where we WANT TO. We each ought to examine ourselves in this regard, and not be forcing the old testament law on anyone...because it does not apply to Christians today.
My parents stopped going to church over 70 years ago, because some minister told them they "had to" give a tithe of 10%, or they were "robbing God". And they've never gone back...all these years.
One has to wonder if the outcome would have been much different, had that preacher instead taught giving, out of a generous heart...

Bud
I agree with you. My pastor tells us to give as the Lord has blessed us. I have never heard him say that we have to give 10% of our income. 10%, if you can afford to give it, is a good place to start since that's the example set in the bible. But no where in the New Testament does it say that we have to give 10% of our monthly income. What if you can give more than 10% and don't? Does that mean you are not giving cheerfully? It's just a thought since God loves a cheerful giver over one who has to follow some misunderstood legalistic law of giving to your local church.
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Old 03-13-2010, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Central Georgia USA
124 posts, read 264,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
Tithing means 10 percent and when we don't tithe ,then we are robbing God. When we give from the heart we are putting God first by putting our cares and worries in to His hands and out of ours.

These verses in Malachi that refer to robbing God are directed toward the priests of the temple, not the parishioners. He accuses the priests of taking money by fraud from the laborer and says the nation of them are condemned
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Old 03-13-2010, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
27,831 posts, read 43,807,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jillian2 View Post
These verses in Malachi that refer to robbing God are directed toward the priests of the temple, not the parishioners. He accuses the priests of taking money by fraud from the laborer and says the nation of them are condemned
The Malachi passage never mentions money.

No Bible passage context when talking about tithing ever mentions that tithing could be money, that would violate the first of the Ten Commandments.

Tithe is from your harvest or your herds.

There is one and only one Bible passage that has both ideas of tithe and money in it, and that is in the context of when you live too far away to travel to Jerusalem. Then your commanded to sell your tithe for money, travel to a place of your choice and spend the money on a party worshipping the Lord.

Tithing is never money.

The priests [who no longer exist according to the Bible] were never to recieve money.
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Old 03-13-2010, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
51,432 posts, read 27,247,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noland123 View Post
I never said or quoted this from the bible ,I was giving the meaning of tithing,which does mean 10 percent,and when we don't give to the Lord we are robbing Him. **** others have stated it doesn't need to necessarily have to be monetarily but we should give as everything is from God.
Tithing is a great question. I tithe, but it is true that it was different with the Jews. Remember that Israel was ran by the church, and tithes and other givings paid for the military and other services. So it was like paying taxes.

Has it changed? I don't know, but what I do know is that everything belongs to Christ and he put us in charge of managing our money, which is his money. So, we are actually managing his money.

I took a 20 hour Bible course about money, it was a real eye opener. It was by Crown Bible Financial Studys. I highly recommend it. The Bible talks about money over 2300 times.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 03-13-2010 at 08:10 AM..
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:21 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,441,863 times
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I consider tithing to be not a necessity. Jesus taught a better way to give and that is in secret and not publicly as in not knowing what your right hand from your left hand is doing. Course, what the church does with the bounty collected as provided by the Lord in raising up cheerful givers is another matter, but tithing can be implied as it used to be in that you have to give: and we should not be compelled or forced into giving.

If the church believes in God's Providence, then where is that faith? If the preacher from the pulpit preaches to each member of the congregation to have faith in God to provide when they are jobless and see no normal means for financial support so that when they leave and go home, they are living by faith in God to provide, then why is it that the church cannot show that same faith in God's Providence when they come together by doing away with tithings and pledges on givings because that is the same thing as looking to church members to provide.

And when members are jobless and suffering financially, where is the love of God in their hearts when they have the bounty collected and have no immediate need for it as much as the ones that are about to perish by the loss of their homes or even those with lack of food & proper clothing to survive from starvation and the elements. I believe that was the point of the Book of James when believers voice their faith in God's promise, saying to the poor to be warm and to be flled" as if by saying that statement of faith, God will do this as their words would inspire the poor of the church's faith in God's Providence when the church has the means to meet their immediate needs of what the church does not need at the moment. I'm sure the churches back then that James was addressing this scenario towards also had plans and outreaches, but if they behold a brother in need and speak of faith in God's Providence and does nothing to meet that immediate need, then in the eyes of the poor, the faith of the church's in God's Providence is dead for that kind of issuance of faith in God's Providence to the poor will not profit them nor save them seeing how the poor are about to perish from hunger and the elements and the church is not, holding unto the bounty that could have sustained them for their immediate needs.

That is what James was talking about in regards to faith without works being dead to avoid any churches from abusing their proclamation of faith in God's Providence just to get out of helping the poor whom James cited other examples as clear evidence of the church abusing the poor and showing favoritism towards the rich. It was never about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as it was about misusing faith in God's Providence in getting out of helping the poor when they have the means to do so from the bounty they had collected from cheerful givers that God has raised up.

So churches should really do away with tithings and pledges for giving if they really expect to preach about faith in God's Providence and find a way for people to give anonymously. Granted, some will want their givings to be known, and although it is not a sin, Jesus simply stated that they have already received their rewards: and yet Jesus taught a better way to give... and that is secretly.
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