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Old 01-10-2010, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,438,566 times
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[quote=Mike555;12385594][quote=Harold Kupp;12384438]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post

In both the book of Romans and Galatians Paul makes the point that salvation is through faith alone. There is nothing modern about it.

Concerning the book of Romans:

quote
The theme of the Epistle is ''the Gospel of God;(1:1), this is the widest possible designation of the whole body of redemption truth. It relates to the whole world because ''there is no respect of persons'' (2:11) with Him who is ''the God of the Jews'' and ''of the Gentiles also'' (3:29). Accordingly all humanity is found guilty (3:19,23) and a justification is revealed sufficient for man's need and received through faith alone (3:28). Romans states that the divine provision of God's grace whereby He is able to declare sinners as righteous through the atoning work of His righteous Son. It goes on to set forth the nature of the new life which all justified persons may enjoy through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Following this the Epistle reveals God's sovereign wisdom and grace in working out His purpose through the unfaithfulness of Israel. It closes by laying upon all Christians the obligation of recipients of the ''mercies of God'' (12:1) to live lives of consecrated service. The key expression of the book is ''the righteousness of God'' (1:17; 3:21,22).

The Epistle may be divided as follows: Introduction and Theme, 1:1-17. I. The Whole World Guilty before God, 1:18-3:20. II. Justification by Faith in Christ, 3:21-5:21. III. Sanctification through Union with Christ in His Death and Resurrection, 6-8. IV. The Problem of Jewish Unbelief, 9-11. V. Christian Life and Service for the Glory of God, 12:1-15:13. Conclusion: The Outflow of Christian Love, 15:14-16:27.
unquote

(New Scofield Reference Edition, Outline of Romans. p. 1210.)

In other words, salvation is through faith alone, apart from works. Afterwards, the believer has a responsibility to obey God. But if he doesn't live a life of service, he does not lose his salvation. He only comes under divine discipline in time, and loses rewards in eternity that would have otherwise been his.

Concerning the book of Galatians:

quote
At the time Paul was writing, the Galatian churches were facing a double threat, involving purity of doctrine and purity of conduct. Certain individuals had come into the area who ''would pervert the gospel of Christ'' (1:7;5:10). They insisted that, while salvation was of Christ, works were also necessary for salvation. To this Judaizing, ie, legalistic error, the Galatians were already beginning to yield (1:6; 3:1), thus returning to a bondage of observing days, months, years, times, etc. (4:10). Paul overwhelmingly destroys all arguments in favor of mixing the law with faith by pointing out that Abraham was justified by faith alone 430 years before the giving of the Mosaic law. The apostle answers the complementary error--that a believer is made spiritually mature by keeping the law--by setting forth the truth of the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit, and the richness of life available when He rules the Christian whom He indwells.

The Epistle may be divided as folows: Introduction, 1:1-5. I. Occasion of the Epistle; the Galatians' Departure from the True Gospel, 1:6-9, II. Paul's defense of His Apostolic Ministry, 1:10-2:21. III. Justification Is wholly by Faith, Apart From the Law, 3:1-24. IV. The Rule of the Believer's Life Is Gracious, Not Legal, 3:25-5:1. V. Characteristics Displayed in the Life of a Christian Justified by Faith Alone, 5:2-26. VI. The Outworking of the New Life in Christ Jesus, 6:1-16. Conclusion, 6:17-18.
unquote
(New Scofield Reference Edition. Outline of Galatians, p. 1264.)

From the beginning of the church age, there were people who attempted to return to the bondage of the law. And Paul exposed such false teaching as heresy. Legalists exist today, and their legalism is just as heretical as when Paul exposed it back in the first century.

The claim that the truth of salvation by grace is a modern concept is false. The Apostle Paul made it absolutely clear that the believer is justified strictly on the basis of faith alone in Christ alone.

The book of James is talking about justification before man. Not justification before God.



Entering into His rest has nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with mixing the promises of God with your faith so that you trust the Lord to handle the circumstances of your life. Something the Exodus generation of Israelites consistantly failed to do.
Thanks for the back-up Mike and I agree whole-heartedly with this post but have you ever been in a room with a noisy gong and clanging cymbal that won't stop?? What would you do?? Just curious?

I have left the room and discontinued my discussion with Harold.
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:52 PM
 
18,213 posts, read 13,920,715 times
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[quote=Raelyn28;12386186][quote=Mike555;12385594]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post

Thanks for the back-up Mike and I agree whole-heartedly with this post but have you ever been in a room with a noisy gong and clanging cymbal that won't stop?? What would you do?? Just curious?

I have left the room and discontinued my discussion with Harold.
Well, literally, no. I hate loud noises. But I know what you are talking about. I would simply leave the room. It is pointless to continue to present the truth to those who reject it.
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:56 PM
 
Location: southern california
53,432 posts, read 68,444,865 times
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per op
many do not think obediance is a big deal.
they are often unemployed or divorced.
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Old 01-10-2010, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,438,566 times
Reputation: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
per op
many do not think obediance is a big deal.
they are often unemployed or divorced.
Once again, you are saying something that I didn't say or don't think. I posted because I wanted to learn about obedience.

For your information I am not one of the many who think that obedience is a big deal. I have been married for 23 years and it hasn't been easy. I have stayed with my husband many times out of "obedience to the Lord". And I am a stay at home mom out of "obedience to God". He called me to stay home and raise my two boys instead of pursuing my own dreams and career..

Last edited by Raelyn28; 01-10-2010 at 04:30 PM..
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Old 01-10-2010, 04:50 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,501,854 times
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Raelyn says:

Quote:
For your information I am not one of the many who think that obedience is a big deal.
Ummmm I think you meant to say: "...I am not one of the many who [DO NOT] think that obedience is a big deal.

No big deal - but I know how concerned you are with accuracy...

On the other hand maybe you meant exactly what you said. Speaking of salvation you ARE one of the many who think that obedience is no big deal.

Like the Calvinist you can say with all sincerity that you are for obedience in principal but that disobedience cannot affect your salvation because you have been chosen by God to receive the gift of salvation.

In other words - concerning salvation obedience is not a big deal.

HK

"It must have got a little warm in the kitchen" GONG!
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,438,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Raelyn says:



Ummmm I think you meant to say: "...I am not one of the many who [DO NOT] think that obedience is a big deal.

No big deal - but I know how concerned you are with accuracy...

On the other hand maybe you meant exactly what you said. Speaking of salvation you ARE one of the many who think that obedience is no big deal.

Like the Calvinist you can say with all sincerity that you are for obedience in principal but that disobedience cannot affect your salvation because you have been chosen by God to receive the gift of salvation.

In other words - concerning salvation obedience is not a big deal.

HK

"It must have got a little warm in the kitchen" GONG!


Lol Harold, you actually got me to laugh. Lets just agree to disagree with this.
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,438,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...and what is this true love?

And this is love, that we walk after His commandments (2 John 1:6).

I believe God to do exactly as He promised when He said, "...I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgements, and do them" (Ezekiel 36:27).

Obedience means continually yeilding ourselves and being guided and controlled by the Spirit...not obeying the desires and lusts of our flesh, but that we are able to walk in obedience and no longer live under condemnation and guilt.

Many people read Romans 8:1, and stop after the first part that states: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus..." but they deceive themselves because they do not apply the entire Scripture. Paul made it clear concerning those who are no longer living under condemnation. He said, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Obey...or not...it's a choice....it's a test from God, to see who lives to please Him or self.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yoursleves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your instruments of righteousness unto God.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to who ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Romans 6:12-13,16).

Obedience is love toward God...and life everlasting!
Walking by the Spirit--Part 1* -* John MacArthur
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
51,994 posts, read 27,686,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Our love for God is demonstrated by our willingness to obey him , just like our salvation conversion is shown afterward thru the demonstration of doing good works / serving God / and serving others (a changed life) . Both examples are a confirmation of our sincerity . If One claims to love God but isnt willing to obey him and his moral mandates , then that Person only had a said-faith. In other words, its where the rubber meets the road.
It is important to obey the God's laws the best we can. No one is perfect and everyone slips, but living in habitual and deliberate sin while claiming to love God creates a contradiction.

Matthew 7:20-25 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,438,566 times
Reputation: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It is important to obey the God's laws the best we can. No one is perfect and everyone slips, but living in habitual and deliberate sin while claiming to love God creates a contradiction.

Matthew 7:20-25 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
..those three words are what make all the difference that separates the "grace" from the "works" out-of-balance belief.. Thank you for sharing this valuable information and stating it so simply with just three words.

Geez.. are we walking on such a "spiritual" tight rope that if we make one false move and slip we end up in the fire of hell cast out by our Father in Heaven? Even most earthly fathers wouldn't and don't lack graciousness and forgiveness especially when his children are just learning to walk.
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
51,994 posts, read 27,686,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
And I do believe that some people think they are saved but perhaps they really are not. I am not going to judge anyone cause only God knows their heart but I would question a believer that doesn't ever bare any fruit in their life as a result of studying the Word.
Indeed. You are right that God only knows people's hearts, but it is true there are millions of people out there who believe they are saved, but there is a good chance they only think they are. Billy Graham said that 70% of Americans think they are saved, but he said that we are lucky if even 5% of them are truly saved. There is a lot of false teachings out there and many believe that they are saved because they were brough up in a Christian family and prayed a prayer when they were 9 years old, and since then they live as "good people", meaning they don't steal do drugs.

2 Corinthians 13:5-6
5Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? 6And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test
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