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Old 01-10-2010, 06:47 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Indeed. You are right that God only knows people's hearts, but it is true there are millions of people out there who believe they are saved, but there is a good chance they only think they are. Billy Graham said that 70% of Americans think they are saved, but he said that we are lucky if even 5% of them are truly saved. There is a lot of false teachings out there and many believe that they are saved because they were brough up in a Christian family and prayed a prayer when they were 9 years old, and since then they live as "good people", meaning they don't steal do drugs.

2 Corinthians 13:5-6
5Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? 6And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test
You are right we are called to examine ourselves , unfortunately so often we are found out examining the lives of others.
Which usually stems from a lack of faith in the Lord doing for others what He has done for us.
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
..those three words are what make all the difference that separates the "grace" from the "works" out-of-balance belief.. Thank you for sharing this valuable information and stating it so simply with just three words.

Geez.. are we walking on such a "spiritual" tight rope that if we make one false move and slip we end up in the fire of hell cast out by our Father in Heaven? Even most earthly fathers wouldn't and don't lack graciousness and forgiveness especially when his children are just learning to walk.
You are being sarcastic with the first part, or the second, but I don't know which, since I don't know you.

What I was trying to say was that everyone slips, so no, you don't walk on a tight-rope where one slip takes you to hell, because if you are saved, you can slip and God will put you back on the path. However, if you live in habitual and daily sin, like an ongoing cheating on your spouse, or habitual drug use etc and it doesn't bother you, there is a good chance you are not in good terms with God and you should test your salvation to make sure that you are even saved.
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
You are right we are called to examine ourselves , unfortunately so often we are found out examining the lives of others.
Which usually stems from a lack of faith in the Lord doing for others what He has done for us.
Yes, ourselves. I examine myself, and you examine yourself, and my wife examines herself etc... I think Billy Graham was spot-on about the number of people who think are saved, but may not be.
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:16 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, ourselves. I examine myself, and you examine yourself, and my wife examines herself etc... I think Billy Graham was spot-on about the number of people who think are saved, but may not be.
As much as i respect Billy Graham , thankfully he is not the final word on the numbers who are saved and and who are not.
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You are being sarcastic with the first part, or the second, but I don't know which, since I don't know you.

What I was trying to say was that everyone slips, so no, you don't walk on a tight-rope where one slip takes you to hell, because if you are saved, you can slip and God will put you back on the path. However, if you live in habitual and daily sin, like an ongoing cheating on your spouse, or habitual drug use etc and it doesn't bother you, there is a good chance you are not in good terms with God and you should test your salvation to make sure that you are even saved.
No I am not being sarcastic but praising you for explaining this so well. Sorry...for the misunderstanding.. I agree with your post.
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
As much as i respect Billy Graham , thankfully he is not the final word on the numbers who are saved and and who are not.
No, of course not. Only God knows. It is ok for you to disagree with his estimate.
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:34 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, of course not. Only God knows. It is ok for you to disagree with his estimate.
I know that Finn , i believe i am on safe ground to say i am in agreement with God
9This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. 1 Tim 4 verses 9 and 10
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:58 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,488,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post

Quote:
What I was trying to say was that everyone slips, so no, you don't walk on a tight-rope where one slip takes you to hell, because if you are saved, you can slip and God will put you back on the path. However, if you live in habitual and daily sin, like an ongoing cheating on your spouse, or habitual drug use etc and it doesn't bother you, there is a good chance you are not in good terms with God and you should test your salvation to make sure that you are even saved.

Finn, I certainly agree with the thrust of your comments - BUT I am questioning your choice of the words "habitual and daily sin". I am sure you know those are not Biblical terms.

For example, how many times can one commit adultery before it is habitual? If one sins weekly instead of daily is that acceptable?

How about your term "and it doesn't bother you"? Are you saying that if one cheats on his wife and it DOES bother them they are on good terms with God?

I agree that we will sin in ignorance or unintentionally and that God will forgive these sins when we realize what we have done and forsake it.

But what about willful sin - will God always forgive those who sin wilfully?

The Scriptures say "No!" There is a point where God will no longer forgive.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

HK
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
51,341 posts, read 27,132,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Finn, I certainly agree with the thrust of your comments - BUT I am questioning your choice of the words "habitual and daily sin". I am sure you know those are not Biblical terms.

For example, how many times can one commit adultery before it is habitual? If one sins weekly instead of daily is that acceptable?
I think you know what habitual means. You used the word "willful" youseld. What's the difference? If you are a married and have an ongoing affair with another woman/man, with no intention of ending it, then you live in habitual/willful sin. Or if you keep doing drugs day after day, then you live in habitual/willful sin, and it creates a problem with your relationship with God. You are choosing the way of the world as opposed to the way of the Lord. You offend God with your habitual offences. How is the Holy Spirit going to reside in your body aka the Temple of the Holy Spirit when you invite sin in your body every day. Rememer that God and sin are incompatible. They don't mix.

Quote:
James 4:4 You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God

If your relationship with God is intact and you slip one day and do drugs, you will feel horrible about it and pray for forgiveness and God will pick you up and put you back on the path. The overpowering feeling of guilt is one sign of having a good relationship with God. After it happens, you repent and do all in your power to resist the temptation in the future. But if you do it, and then pray and say "sorry God" and then do it again next day, and the day after that, then there is a problem.



Quote:

The Scriptures say "No!" There is a point where God will no longer forgive.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Yes. Willful, habitual, delibarate....I think we are talking about the same thing. If it is habitual, it must be willful.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:27 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,488,911 times
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I think you know what habitual means. You used the word "willful" youseld. What's the difference? If you are a married and have an ongoing affair with another woman/man, with no intention of ending it, then you live in habitual/willful sin. Or if you keep doing drugs day after day, then you live in habitual/willful sin, and it creates a problem with your relationship with God. You are choosing the way of the world as opposed to the way of the Lord. You offend God with your habitual offences. How is the Holy Spirit going to reside in your body aka the Temple of the Holy Spirit when you invite sin in your body every day. Rememer that God and sin are incompatible. They don't mix.

Actually nobody knows what "habitual" means in terms of number. I agree with the emphasis on the intent - but the way you express it is not clear.

Why add "every day"? Either one is committing sin or one is not. The regularity is irrelevant.

If I were having an affair I would not be born of God - it does not matter whether I have an intention to end it or not.

So Amen to your direction but you are not clear when you hedge by adding "daily" or habitually etc.

"Whosoever is born of God sinneth NOT"


HK
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