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Old 01-05-2010, 02:38 PM
 
313 posts, read 698,940 times
Reputation: 173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post


My love for Him is deep and true but for some reason I am getting the impression that I have to be perfect, if I make one false move He is displeased and if I do stumble, fall and become disobedient in one area I am in trouble with Him.

Where is the Grace in that type of thinking Honestly, some of these posts make me want to get closer to God while others make me want to run from God because I think I will never be able to please him, He is too demanding, so why bother trying anyway?

Not that I am going to stop trying because I have no where else to go but I do get confused by some of these answers that seem to be a contradiction to His Word.
He knows we are imperfect and does not expect perfection from us, which would be unreasonable. Neither does he hold us to impossible-to-please-standards. Psalm 103:13,14 "As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust."

He does expect things from us, but Raelyn perfection is not one of them!
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:27 PM
 
34,739 posts, read 22,557,165 times
Reputation: 5602
Obedience is a letter of the law "training wheels" stage of the development of spirit of the law understanding about "love of God and each other." If you remain mired in the obedience stage you miss the whole point of the training. As you said, Raelyn . . . we are not supposed to be "pets" performing in the obedience ring . . . we are children maturing into adults.
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,707,875 times
Reputation: 967
Default "obedience" what does it mean to you??? Help!!

it is for me, admitting that I'm usaully not.
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,437,544 times
Reputation: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
The cheap grace gospel says all you have to do is believe in Jesus and nothing else....you don't have to repent of your sins, you don't have to change your life, you don't have to love everyone, be obedient, etc. In other words, it doesn't cost you anything but your lip service.
Thanks for explaining that. I don't feel that way at all (that I live according to cheap Grace) and do realize that there is a "cost" to becoming a Christian. In fact I don't really think that if one is a "true believer" that person cannot continue in a sinful life because it is just too uncomfortable. In other words if the Holy Spirit is residing in us then to go on sinning would mean quenching the Holy Spirit. Who really wants to continue on in that type of relationship? I don't at all.

No.. I love God and want what He is all about so I desire to please Him, find out who He is, spend time with Him, etc.

I guess the thing I struggle with are some of the things that "well meaning" Christians try to put on me when they talk about work related issues.. Issues like selfishness, tithing, not always speaking in a loving tone, not doing this or doing that, not going to church, sleeping in too late, blah, blah, blah that God is not pleased and maybe you aren't spending enough time with Him. Or worse yet, maybe you weren't even a Christian to begin with. It just seems like there are so many contradictions amongst believers.

In other words, I kind of get this idea that it isn't enough to be growing in these areas and praying for change, it isn't enough to be human and fall once in a while but one must be a certain way in order to be pleasing to God and to be perfect. Where does it say to be perfect in the Bible and how are we to be that way when we live in this body of flesh? Doesn't it say to strive to be perfect as Jesus is perfect? Who is perfect? I have never met a perfect person...

There is sometimes an "inner voice" that says to me...you will never be good enough no matter what you do... I realize that a lot of my issue with hearing that particular lie comes from a past where my parents were very legalistic and works oriented and I never did measure up in their eyes. But truthfully, I have met a lot of Christians that have made me feel this way as well, even those who post here. I don't know maybe I should spend more time on the subject of Grace in the Word.

I just know that the word "Obedience" brings uncomfortable feelings to me and I don't know why. And as I read all these different posts I either get a desire to get closer to God or I feel repelled... I don't know where that comes from and I desire to search that out on my own.

I probably will print this entire thread out and do a Bible study on each post asking God to speak to me personally about the different responses. I believe through prayer and an honest willingness on my part to go to God with this He will be able to speak to me regarding this issue. And if it is me with the issue I pray for knowledge, Truth and forgiveness.

Thanks for sharing with me and I look forward to more responses on this subject...
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,437,544 times
Reputation: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiJay View Post
He knows we are imperfect and does not expect perfection from us, which would be unreasonable. Neither does he hold us to impossible-to-please-standards. Psalm 103:13,14 "As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust."

He does expect things from us, but Raelyn perfection is not one of them!
I love this and was just posting about my issue with perfection. Posted the post and then read your post... Thanks, I will write down this Scripture and put it on my wall. LOL
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 3,437,544 times
Reputation: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Obedience is a letter of the law "training wheels" stage of the development of spirit of the law understanding about "love of God and each other." If you remain mired in the obedience stage you miss the whole point of the training. As you said, Raelyn . . . we are not supposed to be "pets" performing in the obedience ring . . . we are children maturing into adults.
Good point!!! Thanks.
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:23 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,517 posts, read 10,949,962 times
Reputation: 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiJay View Post
He knows we are imperfect and does not expect perfection from us, which would be unreasonable. Neither does he hold us to impossible-to-please-standards. Psalm 103:13,14 "As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust."

He does expect things from us, but Raelyn perfection is not one of them!
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Mat 5:48)

He knows there is nothing good in us, but He also knows His Son is what He desires in all of us. There is only one way we can "achieve" perfection, and that is to lose (deny) our life and live through Him.

I wish this was preached from the pulpit...
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Old 01-05-2010, 04:32 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,517 posts, read 10,949,962 times
Reputation: 4412
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Jesus is holding the Father's left hand of judgement back.
Pitting Jesus against His Father in purpose is backward theology.

Just sayin'.
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,881 posts, read 4,830,369 times
Reputation: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
Thanks for explaining that. I don't feel that way at all (that I live according to cheap Grace) and do realize that there is a "cost" to becoming a Christian. In fact I don't really think that if one is a "true believer" that person cannot continue in a sinful life because it is just too uncomfortable. In other words if the Holy Spirit is residing in us then to go on sinning would mean quenching the Holy Spirit. Who really wants to continue on in that type of relationship? I don't at all.

No.. I love God and want what He is all about so I desire to please Him, find out who He is, spend time with Him, etc.

I guess the thing I struggle with are some of the things that "well meaning" Christians try to put on me when they talk about work related issues.. Issues like selfishness, tithing, not always speaking in a loving tone, not doing this or doing that, not going to church, sleeping in too late, blah, blah, blah that God is not pleased and maybe you aren't spending enough time with Him. Or worse yet, maybe you weren't even a Christian to begin with. It just seems like there are so many contradictions amongst believers.

In other words, I kind of get this idea that it isn't enough to be growing in these areas and praying for change, it isn't enough to be human and fall once in a while but one must be a certain way in order to be pleasing to God and to be perfect. Where does it say to be perfect in the Bible and how are we to be that way when we live in this body of flesh? Doesn't it say to strive to be perfect as Jesus is perfect? Who is perfect? I have never met a perfect person...

There is sometimes an "inner voice" that says to me...you will never be good enough no matter what you do... I realize that a lot of my issue with hearing that particular lie comes from a past where my parents were very legalistic and works oriented and I never did measure up in their eyes. But truthfully, I have met a lot of Christians that have made me feel this way as well, even those who post here. I don't know maybe I should spend more time on the subject of Grace in the Word.

I just know that the word "Obedience" brings uncomfortable feelings to me and I don't know why. And as I read all these different posts I either get a desire to get closer to God or I feel repelled... I don't know where that comes from and I desire to search that out on my own.

I probably will print this entire thread out and do a Bible study on each post asking God to speak to me personally about the different responses. I believe through prayer and an honest willingness on my part to go to God with this He will be able to speak to me regarding this issue. And if it is me with the issue I pray for knowledge, Truth and forgiveness.

Thanks for sharing with me and I look forward to more responses on this subject...
The quickest way to solve your problem is QUIT LISTENING TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,881 posts, read 4,830,369 times
Reputation: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Mat 5:48)

He knows there is nothing good in us, but He also knows His Son is what He desires in all of us. There is only one way we can "achieve" perfection, and that is to lose (deny) our life and live through Him.

I wish this was preached from the pulpit...
Me to....I might actually get back into church if that were the case....but alas...it is not so.
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