U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-06-2010, 06:36 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 11,843,652 times
Reputation: 744

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflight View Post
Don't know. God obviously didn't need them to.

For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. -- Hosea 6:6
His will is for us not to sin yet we still sin. Jews had to sacrifice animals because they had no messiah until Jesus came, until the Jews receive Christ they will forever have to do a covering for their sins. Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice once and for all.

Quote:
Actually, Shin Buddhism teaches that one doesn't need many reincarnations to work out bad karma, but promises instead rebirth after death into the Pure Land, where one is assured speedy enlightenment. All by the grace of Amida Buddha. So you are wrong.

You are moving the goal posts here. You initially said that Christianity is unique in regards to forgiveness and grace; when shown that is incorrect, you say that its not grace per se, but the fact that it is Christian grace!
Rebirth after death IS reincarnation...so what if the individual still has bad karma?

Yes I am moving the goal posts because although Shin Buddhism compares very closely to Christianity's faith and grace many Buddhists don't even recognize Buddha as being a god and which Buddha (since there are many Buddhas) does my karma fall under? and did the Buddha I fall under accumulate all his merit for his saving power? if not then this particular Buddha is not omniscient, not perfect nor immutable and still must answer to a higher authority and the laws of karma. he lacks the power, knowledge and status to ensure his ultimate fulfillment and has no power to enlighten.

So in retrospect Shin Buddhism can and does offer "grace" but can't promise EVERYONE will receive "grace".

God who is perfect, Holy, omnicient, ultimate, all powerful, immutable. He has no superior, He answers to no one; the alpha and omega can offer and can promise EVERYONE will receive grace.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-06-2010, 07:06 PM
 
17,986 posts, read 13,701,271 times
Reputation: 5795
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflight View Post
The Bible says otherwise. In the book of James we read, "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." James 1:27

So James speaks of pure religion.
No. The Greek word THRESKEIA is translated as religion, worshiping, religious worship, esp. external, that which consists of ceremonies.

Here is what C.I. Scofield writes about THRESKEIA.

quote
Another word for ''religion'' (Gk. threskeia, meaning religious service) is used in the N.T.: (1) for external observances (Acts 26:5; Jas. 1:26; Col. 2:18, ''worshiping''); and (2) in the sense of a believer's good works (Jas. 1:27). It is never used as synonymous with salvation or spirituality.
unquote

(New Scofield Reference Bible footnote for Gal. 1:14, p. 1266)

Note that last sentence. 'It is never used as synonymous with salvation or spirituality.' In other words, THRESKEIA-religion is never used as synonymous with Christianity.

James is not calling Christianity a religion. The book of James is concerned with the outward expression of faith which manifests itself in production. Works are the result of spiritual growth. Never the means of producing it.

James use of the word THRESKEIA, is not a reference to salvation or spirituality, and therefore not to Christianity, but rather to outward conduct. Good works.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Anything that an unbeliever can do is not the Christian way of life. Unbelievers can visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction. Good works can be a part of any religion. But salvation comes only through faith in Christ. Not from any religion.

I don't know if I'm being clear on this or not.

But Christianity is a relationship with Christ. Anything that promotes salvation apart from Christ is a religion.



Well, anyone who is interested can simply Google: 'Christianity is not a religion.'

Here's a link:

Christianity is NOT Religion

Now if after all that, there are still those who want to call Christianity a religion, then at least make sure you call it 'True religion' as opposed to 'false religion' which is everything other than Christianity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 07:16 PM
 
Location: South FL
9,444 posts, read 14,174,010 times
Reputation: 7977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Did that statement make you cringe "Christian"? if it did, why? be honest with yourself "Christian". Do you love Jesus beyond anything that you would always put Him first and the world behind you telling the world they are wrong and you are right because you have the Holy Spirit in you or would you rather offer some philosophical, rational approach as to why that statement could be wrong or even bad?

Christianity is the only religion that offers forgiveness of sins, Christianity sets itself apart from any other religion in that it is not work righteous, that there is nothing we can do to gain a reward in heaven, paradise etc..... It is all God's grace and since He died for our sins takes the burden off of us. Christianity cleans the inward as well as the outward; No matter what we do to clean ourselves up we are still sinners but because of what Christ did on the cross for us offers us that inner cleansing. I say, superior in every way!

Am I being a bigot or just brutally honest?
Why would I pick a faith and religion for myself that I thought was inferior? Obviously, if Christianity is my religion, I naturally think that it's superior to others.
I'm fascinated by other religions and I respect the right of others to believe whatever they want, but I wouldn't chose Christianity if I didn't think it was the true and correct faith.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 07:18 PM
 
Location: East Coast
26,974 posts, read 17,701,602 times
Reputation: 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
His will is for us not to sin yet we still sin. Jews had to sacrifice animals because they had no messiah until Jesus came, until the Jews receive Christ they will forever have to do a covering for their sins. Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice once and for all.



Rebirth after death IS reincarnation...so what if the individual still has bad karma?



So in retrospect Shin Buddhism can and does offer "grace" but can't promise EVERYONE will receive "grace".

God who is perfect, Holy, omnicient, ultimate, all powerful, immutable. He has no superior, He answers to no one; the alpha and omega can offer and can promise EVERYONE will receive grace.
The first 2 sentences sound very much like christianity to me , bad Karma (condemnation) is what many christians i have met suffer from.

Christianity tells us that Grace is unmerited favor , given only to those who merit it through faith and obedience.(see 3rd sentence)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 07:21 PM
 
17,986 posts, read 13,701,271 times
Reputation: 5795
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Well, it wasn't supposed to be - but it is. I'm sure you mean that spiritual rebirth isn't a religion, and how could it be?

AISI Unfortunately many "Christians" do the work of the devil (that is, they try to impose written creedal requirements on the masses) replete with all the exclusivity and elitism of the pharisees - only dressed up as "free grace".

I know you believe you have "truth" through proper scriptural exegesis. That's how legalism works - even when disguised as spiritual understanding/enlightenment.
Since legalism is the exact opposite of grace, and I constantly teach that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, how is it then that you call it legalism? To call grace legalism is to say that white is black; or that day is night.

How is teaching Acts 16:31 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved,' doing the work of the devil?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 07:33 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,561 posts, read 13,827,042 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Mike555
Quote:
How is teaching Acts 16:31 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved,' doing the work of the devil?
By believing that white is black and black is white?
Generally when you don't understand the messenger (understand where he's coming from) you won't get the message either.

Anywayz, the saying 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions' should answer your question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 07:43 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 20,827,867 times
Reputation: 6599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
(John 8:44)
44"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because......."

Now who was Jesus speaking to?
If you'll go beyond this snippet it should be clearer.

"If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not." John 8 39-40

He was speaking to the Pharisees who wanted to kill him. It's fairly clear in the Gospels that the Jewish people are of factions at this point and later it becomes clear even the Pharisees are not in total agreement. The Pharisee Gamaliel advised the Sanhedrin not to put Peter and the others to death. Granted his words indicate he believed Christianity would collapse on its own, but he wasn't implacably hostile. Jesus was directing his statement at a group that was constantly against him and wanted his death.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 07:47 PM
 
2 posts, read 1,688 times
Reputation: 10
replying to what you said about forgiveness of sins, here is a list of religions other than christianity, that offer forgiveness.

buddhism,sikhism,judaism, islam.

the reason for this, is that most religions, are based on eachother, jesus is a repeat of many other gods, like horus for example, born of a virgin on december 25th under the star on the east, visited by three kings, was a prodical teacher at twelve, and baptized at age thirty. the list of similarities between them are endless. as is the list of previous prophets who share all of those similarities, and for the record, horus is dated back to 3000 b.c.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 08:02 PM
 
4,380 posts, read 2,554,535 times
Reputation: 1431
Quote:
James use of the word THRESKEIA, is not a reference to salvation or spirituality, and therefore not to Christianity, but rather to outward conduct. Good works.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Anything that an unbeliever can do is not the Christian way of life. Unbelievers can visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction. Good works can be a part of any religion. But salvation comes only through faith in Christ. Not from any religion.
My response is to a poster who said that "religion" in itself was evil. Can evil bring forth good works? Didn's a certain man say a good tree brings forth good fruit?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2010, 08:08 PM
 
871 posts, read 1,341,146 times
Reputation: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Did that statement make you cringe "Christian"? if it did, why? be honest with yourself "Christian". Do you love Jesus beyond anything that you would always put Him first and the world behind you telling the world they are wrong and you are right because you have the Holy Spirit in you or would you rather offer some philosophical, rational approach as to why that statement could be wrong or even bad?

Christianity is the only religion that offers forgiveness of sins, Christianity sets itself apart from any other religion in that it is not work righteous, that there is nothing we can do to gain a reward in heaven, paradise etc..... It is all God's grace and since He died for our sins takes the burden off of us. Christianity cleans the inward as well as the outward; No matter what we do to clean ourselves up we are still sinners but because of what Christ did on the cross for us offers us that inner cleansing. I say, superior in every way!

Am I being a bigot or just brutally honest?
i believe the reasons you cite or give for a supposed superiority of christianity to be apalling, irresponsible, and atrocious. the reasons you cite, imo, are no reason that any christian is worthy of anything. the reasons you cite account for no personal responsibility or real consequences and clearly shows it's about getting a great deal for oneself even if they don't deserve it or get off. this is in line with my stepfather's views of religion and that he can do whatever he want and still be forgiven, even rape and everything he wants to do. Yeah, you are in great company and should be proud of your "christianity" while i laugh while disgusted.

your views of christianity are very similar to many fundamentalists and it's like communism. people exploit and do evil things to gain but then believe and demand forgiveness from others while preaching that everyone is crap and what one tries to do better means nothing. my stepfather who was a minister constantly made sure to tell me that 'i was no better' than him and that all sins are equal and we are all sinners. this, again, is a mental ploy to excuse evil and moral weaknesses or keep others down to your level. it has nothing to do with anything good. fundamental religion is primitive, animalistic and disgusting for the most part. i bet you've never taken that perspective before. LOL
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top