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Old 01-07-2010, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
I believe you would call anything else "Legalism" and Jesus was not impressed by the legalistic attitudes of the Scribes and Pharisees...
Matthew 15:3-9
I pulled the above off of another thread as an example, but I have seen this thought run rampant on this forum and am really wondering where the idea that the Scribes and Pharisees were legalistic came from. One thing Jesus never accused them of was being legalistic, in fact, he accused them of just the opposite. The Scribes and Pharisees were constantly being berated by Jesus for teaching a watered down version of Gods Laws and for giving more precedence to their oral traditions over Gods Laws making Gods Laws of no effect.

The Saducees, on the other hand, were the ones who were extremely legalistic, following the exact letter of the law and ones who completely disregarded the oral traditions of the Scribes and Pharisees....and yet, you never find Jesus berating them the way he did the Scribes and Pharisees. In fact, you never find Jesus berating them at all and the only thing Jesus ever corrected them on was their belief in the resurrection.

So....if anyone can please explain to me where this notion that the Scribes of Pharisees were legalistic came from, I would greatly appreciate it. And please provide scripture along with your response.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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I think you will find that it was hypocrisy that was their undoing Matt 23, , for example they failed to understand the spirit of the law , so when Jesus healed on their sabbath they could not understand it , yet they would pull their own son or ox out of a well if need be , Luke 14 verse 5.

Orthodox christianity operates in the same way
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I think you will find that it was hypocrisy that was their undoing Matt 23, , for example they failed to understand the spirit of the law , so when Jesus healed on their sabbath they could not understand it , yet they would pull their own son or ox out of a well if need be , Luke 14 verse 5.

Orthodox christianity operates in the same way
I agree....but I see them charged with being "legalistic" over and over again on these forums and I am wanting to know where in scripture Jesus ever said this. I just can't find anything that would even remotely suggest they were "legalistic".....they were just the opposite.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
I pulled the above off of another thread as an example, but I have seen this thought run rampant on this forum and am really wondering where the idea that the Scribes and Pharisees were legalistic came from. One thing Jesus never accused them of was being legalistic, in fact, he accused them of just the opposite. The Scribes and Pharisees were constantly being berated by Jesus for teaching a watered down version of Gods..........
Not just the Pharisees but the Jewish people as well-it was a legalistic system. The Jews today are still legalistic. Without Christ you can't be but legalistic.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I think you will find that it was hypocrisy that was their undoing Matt 23, , for example they failed to understand the spirit of the law , so when Jesus healed on their sabbath they could not understand it , yet they would pull their own son or ox out of a well if need be , Luke 14 verse 5.

Orthodox christianity operates in the same way
Wrong! and if the Pharisees could not understand it then how could it be hypocrisy, moreso ignorance wouldn't you say?

The Pharisses were hypocrites where they made things so impossible for the average Jew but they themselves never practiced what they taught and the Pharisees were false prophets. Self rigteousness was their undoing as well. They needed no saviour much like Jews today who don't believe Jesus was the messiah.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-07-2010 at 01:50 PM..
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
I agree....but I see them charged with being "legalistic" over and over again on these forums and I am wanting to know where in scripture Jesus ever said this. I just can't find anything that would even remotely suggest they were "legalistic".....they were just the opposite.
Depends what you mean by legalistic. They were legalistic toward the outward law while disregarding the inward law. They made the outside of the cup look clean while the inside was dirty.

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Another example is the elder son in the prodigal son parable. According to his own words, he kept all the commandments, and his father did not contradict that statement, yet when it came time to show mercy to his brother, he refused (he represented the pharisees). So while he may have kept the letter of the law, he failed to keep the heart of the law. Some would call that legalistic.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Not just the Pharisees but the Jewish people as well-it was a legalistic system. The Jews today are still legalistic. Without Christ you can't be but legalistic.
Okay you're missing the point here because they weren't "legalistic"....the definition of legalism is the strict adherence, or the principle of strict adherence to law.

Did the Scribes and Pharisees follow a strict adherence to the law....NO....which is what Jesus berated them for. They watered down Gods Law and taught that their own oral traditions were to be followed before Gods Law. This is exactly what Jews today do....their oral traditions hold more weight than Gods Laws.

The Saducees were the legalists....they followed with strict adherence Gods Laws and they were never berated by Jesus for that.

So back to my original question: Please explain to me where this notion that the Scribes of Pharisees were legalistic came from....and please provide scripture along with your response.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:59 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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[quote=Fundamentalist;12341426]Wrong! and if the Pharisees could not understand it then how could it be hypocrisy, moreso ignorance wouldn't you say?

The Pharisses were hypocrites where they made things so impossible for the average Jew but they themselves never practiced what they taught and the Pharisees were false prophets. Self rigteousness was their undoing as well. They needed no saviour much like Jews today who don't believe Jesus was the messiah.



Right


Matthew 23


13“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
16“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred 18You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.’19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.22And he who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
23“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
33“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

Luke 12 , Jesus tells us to beware of the leaven of the Pharisee which is Hypocrisy !.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,881 posts, read 4,773,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Depends what you mean by legalistic. They were legalistic toward the outward law while disregarding the inward law. They made the outside of the cup look clean while the inside was dirty.

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
They weren't legalistic at all is the point I'm trying to make.....they didn't follow a strict adherence to Gods Laws like the Saducees did....this is why Jesus berated them so harshly. They put a yoke of bondage on the people with their oral traditions and taught them as law while neglecting Gods Laws.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:08 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Christy i think they were legalistic to their own law (their own interpretation , that made them legalistic as well as hypocrites) , just like orthodox christianity is to it's own law (which they try and sell to us as being grace).
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