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Old 01-10-2010, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,345 posts, read 3,668,075 times
Reputation: 818

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catlove View Post
Re: Stephen Boissoin

There is no evidence that an assault on a teenager ever happened. And Boissoin certainly never advocated it or condoned it.

http://stephenboissoin.com/downloads/scan013_20091203_180444 (broken link)[1].pdf

Read the whole thing, but especially page 6-7.
This link may work better:
Index of /downloads (http://www.stephenboissoin.com/downloads/ - broken link)

Just click on the bottom one (last one down on the list of downloads) for the pdf

The one posted didn't work for me for some reason.
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:39 PM
 
4 posts, read 3,348 times
Reputation: 10
Thank you Firstborn. My blogging skills are somewhat lacking.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,345 posts, read 3,668,075 times
Reputation: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catlove View Post
Thank you Firstborn. My blogging skills are somewhat lacking.
What works good here is to copy whatever is in your browsers address bar and paste right into your message. Then when you post your message it automatically turns into a clickable url.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:30 PM
 
4 posts, read 3,348 times
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I thought I had done that. Not sure where I messed up but thanks for the help.
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:11 AM
 
15,576 posts, read 5,426,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It was a letter. Happy now?

I did not say that he was 'made to' renounce his faith. I said that he was ordered to renounce it by the counsel 'the Alberta human rights commission' that he was brought up before. Here is a link for anyone who is interested.

Canada Orders Pastor to Renounce His Faith*|*Catholic Exchange

Now if the charges were dropped, that is great. He never should have been charged with anything in the first place.

And as a reminder, this thread is NOT about homosexuality. It is about Christian persecution.
Actually you did say "actually ordered by a goverment commission to apologize and to renounce his faith."

You were the one to bring up homosexuality in a thread about Christian persecution. I do agree this is relevant to the topic of Christian persecution though. Christians have been persecuting homosexuals for centuries based on a handful of obscure verses taken out of the cultural and linguistic contexts in which they were originally written.

It's almost funny that the most often used verse used against homosexuals in current times (1 Cor 6:9) used to be used for centuries to condemn masturbators not homosexuals. That is, until some translator in the 1946 version of the RSV decided to incorrectly translate 2 greek words as "homosexuals" . Words which had never been used to describe homosexuals in any of the Greek secular literature before or after the first century.
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:43 AM
 
15,576 posts, read 5,426,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The main difference is that in some of those other countries, Christians are being tortured, and murdered, whereas in this country Christianity is being ridiculed and there are attempts being made to pass laws which would penalize Christians who would stand on the truth of the word of God.



The word of God recognizes homosexuality as a sin. Christians had better also recognize it as a sin. (Rom. 1:26-29; Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Jude 1:7; Isa. 3:9; Gen. 19:5; 1 kings 14:24,15:11-12; 22:46; Matt 19:4-6; I Tim. 1:8-10)

The Bible condemns anti-Semititism and there is a curse on those who are involved in it. (Gen. 12:1-3)

There is no place for racism. (Gal. 3:28)
Interesting that you use the verses from Kings where the Hebrew word "qadesh" was incorrectly translated by the KJV translators as "sodomites".
Go look it up. The word actually meant "sacred male" and was referring to male temple prostitutes who worshipped Canaanite fertility gods. You'll find most modern translations now use "male temple prostitute" or "male shrine prostitute". Don't believe me? Look it up in any multi-version online bible site like bible.cc.com

Romans 1:26 is most likely also referring to people who were idolators and used ritual sex to worship fertility gods. Paul supposedly wrote this letter from Corinth where an ancient Greek historian Strabo wrote that there were a 1000 temple prostitutes (male and female) in the service of the goddess Aphrodite. Rome also had it's temples to pagan fertility gods and goddesses.

Given the context, Lev 18:22 comes right after 18:21 which refers to giving their children over to service in the temples to worship the god Molech, these verses may also be referring to this same practice of male shrine prostitution to worship Canaanite fertility gods as is repeated in Deut 23:17 (you forgot that one) and the verses in Kings.

The focus of Gen 19:5 is about the Jewish law of hospitality and the terrible treatment of strangers in Sodom. Lot offers up his 2 virgin daughters to the crowd to be raped so that the 2 strangers he has given his protection to would remain unharmed. Raping another male (treating them like women-who had a very low status) was a way of humilating and dominating another male. Why would Lot offer up his daughters if all the men of Sodom were homosexual? It desn't make sense. Heterosexual men have done this throughout history and still do it in war and in prisons. These men were not homosexuals- they were rapists. See the story of the Levite in Judges 19 for a similar story where a concubine ended up be raped by a gang of men and cut up into 12 pieces instead of the Levite male. see Ezekial 16:49 for the sins of Sodom.

Jude 1:7 used the word "heterasarkos" which means strange or different flesh and refers to the fact the angels who visited Lot were strangers or "different". Reading this as "homsexuals" is just plain poor and biased scholarship.

As for Matt 19:4-6 - it's in response to a question about divorce. Read the part about "men born as eunuchs".

1 Tim 1 - see my last post about 1 Cor 6:9. The same Koine Greek word is used (ἀρσενοκοίτης). It has never been used or translated as meaning homosexuals in any secular Greek texts before or after the first century until it was first used in a 1946 RSV English version. As I already mentioned, 1 Cor 6:9 was used for centuries to condemn masturbators -not homosexuals.

Condemning (or persecuting) all modern homosexuals because of a few ancient references to specific same-gender sex acts (there is nothing that says these people were homosexual) in the context of idolatry or abusive sex acts, is as illogical as saying all heterosexual women are condemned because there a few verses in the Bible which condemn female temple prostitutes. Or that all heterosexual men are condemned because there are a fews verses about heterosexual men raping virgins in the Bible (not all acts of rape are condemned by the way- a man can pay 50 shekels of silver to the father of a virgin girl he raped, then the girl has to marry her rapist for life. How....moral.)

And this is what certain Christians (certainly not all) base their persecution of all homosexuals on....

Last edited by Ceist; 01-11-2010 at 08:50 AM..
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:49 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 2,565,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcnwzrd View Post
Just consider it karma for all the atrocities committed in the name of GOD during the Crusades.
I would agree on that!
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:49 AM
 
12,790 posts, read 6,768,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
Actually you did say "actually ordered by a goverment commission to apologize and to renounce his faith."

You were the one to bring up homosexuality in a thread about Christian persecution. I do agree this is relevant to the topic of Christian persecution though. Christians have been persecuting homosexuals for centuries based on a handful of obscure verses taken out of the cultural and linguistic contexts in which they were originally written.

It's almost funny that the most often used verse used against homosexuals in current times (1 Cor 6:9) used to be used for centuries to condemn masturbators not homosexuals. That is, until some translator in the 1946 version of the RSV decided to incorrectly translate 2 greek words as "homosexuals" . Words which had never been used to describe homosexuals in any of the Greek secular literature before or after the first century.
Yes, and then I reread the article. What it actually said was that in essence he was ordered to renounce his faith. That was because of everything that the commission DID order him to do. One of which was to apologize. The link to the article has been provided in another post.

Yes, I brought it up. So what? The pastor spoke out against homosexuality on the basis of the word of God and he was brought up before a goverment counsel on account of it. That is persecution. You don't like it. Too bad. People who engage in homosexual behavior will go to any length in an attempt to justify their sin. The Bible is quite clear on the matter. The word of God calls it perversion. An abomination. And so it is.
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:01 AM
 
15,576 posts, read 5,426,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Yes, and then I reread the article. What it actually said was that in essence he was ordered to renounce his faith. That was because of everything that the commission DID order him to do. One of which was to apologize. The link to the article has been provided in another post.

Yes, I brought it up. So what? The pastor spoke out against homosexuality on the basis of the word of God and he was brought up before a goverment counsel on account of it. That is persecution. You don't like it. Too bad. People who engage in homosexual behavior will go to any length in an attempt to justify their sin. The Bible is quite clear on the matter. The word of God calls it perversion. An abomination. And so it is.
The pastor was inciting hatred and contempt of homosexuals based on his own less-than-scholarly parroting of certain bible verses in English taken out of context. And a longstanding church tradition of doing the same.

A gay teenager was then beaten up by a regular visitor to his centre. Even though I think he bears some moral responsibilty for this attack, he apparently does not bear any criminal responsibilty because of freedom of speech.

Nope. Don't agree on your opinion about the Bible and homosexuals. See my last post. And Please don't bother to tell me I am "twisting" verses unless you can explain in the same amount of detail in your own words exactly "how" - for each verse. Otherwise to me you are just another person who has never bothered to study this topic before giving their "uninformed biased opinion".

Misusing the Bible and going to any lengths to persecute homosexuals is a perversion of the texts and an abomination for anyone who calls themselves a Christian in my opinion.

Last edited by Ceist; 01-11-2010 at 09:12 AM..
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Old 01-11-2010, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
11,026 posts, read 12,547,693 times
Reputation: 7047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Yes, and then I reread the article. What it actually said was that in essence he was ordered to renounce his faith. That was because of everything that the commission DID order him to do. One of which was to apologize. The link to the article has been provided in another post.

Yes, I brought it up. So what? The pastor spoke out against homosexuality on the basis of the word of God and he was brought up before a goverment counsel on account of it. That is persecution. You don't like it. Too bad. People who engage in homosexual behavior will go to any length in an attempt to justify their sin. The Bible is quite clear on the matter. The word of God calls it perversion. An abomination. And so it is.
Well, that's your OPINION. Nothing more. I'll say it again- I believe gay haters USE religion to justify bigotry.
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