Salvation is Through Faith Alone In Christ Alone; Not by your Works (believers, sin)

[firstborn888]

Originally Posted by Mike555

If you do not understand that your salvation is strictly a matter of placing your trust in Christ "

Yes - your words are "correct" and herein lies the problem. It doesn't seem that most traditional protestant believers have a single clue as to what 'salvation' means.

It means to be "made whole" or "healed" but you guys make it mean a special pass into some kind of mysterious afterlife paradise and an escape from a most horrendous afterlife torment - a torment you believe almost ALL HUMANS WILL ENDURE ("few there be who find it").

Your picture of God and creation is the ultimate cosmic nightmare - absolute insanity really.

By your doctrine I should hope that you spend 100% of your time with dying people (hospitals perhaps) hoping to persuade even one of them of your "truth" before it'd "too late". But I know from experience that as "few there be who find it" there are even fewer who "spend all their timing trying to show it".

Is this the reason that "few there be who find it"?

If so - the greater guilt should be on those who DON'T spend virtually every resource and every second and every breath trying to persuade those who (by your doctrine) most likely are not going to listen anyway. In other words - you are destined to largely fail before you start. As was all creation. According to your doctrine.

If you can't see the insanity of your case then I'm sorry. I would advise all of you to go love somebody, heal somebody, bring them into the marvelous kingdom of God's love.

Originally Posted by Mike555

your salvation depends on an accurate understanding of it. If you are a legalist, you probably will reject what has been presented.

It's incomprehensible to me that you cannot see the legalistic nature of you statement here - while you then go on to say a legalist would reject it.

What special act (or belief) did you perform to become a sinner? None- Adam did it for you. What special act (or belief) did you perform to become righteous? None - Jesus did that for you.

" as in Adam all die - so in Christ shall all be made alive"

All that being said - I agree, one MUST receive and understand God's grace to experience the benefit of it. But the benefit is still true and is "glad tidings of great joy for all people" whether they actually experience it now not.

[Raelyn28]

As I read through this thread I have to scratch my head in amazement as to how certain "well meaning" Christians can complicate issues and get off topic like they do.

The title of Mike's thread is SALVATION IS THROUGH FAITH ALONE IN CHRIST ALONE; NOT BY WORKS.

What is so difficult about that title? The Bible CLEARLY states that Salvation is a gift from God. Who would ever give somebody a gift and expect that person to work for it?

Come on you guys/girls we just had Christmas, remember? Let me ask you? Did you people give your families and kids gifts and then expect them to work for those gifts. I don't think so.

Christ's death on the cross was a ransom for many and it was very costly... His death FOR our life and a sacrifice for sin. Simple as that.

Don't even bother to go any further (beyond the discussion of Salvation) because Mike was not posting about anything other than Salvation on this thread. End of discussion.

Quit taking what Christ did and saying "His death was not enough to save us", because that is what you are doing and saying every time you add anything else to it..

AND THIS SALVATION IS NOT OF YOURSELVES BUT IT IS A GIFT OF GOD

• the greek word for "GIFT" is dorea which means: as a gift, freely, gift, needlessly, without charge, without cost, without paying.
• IS ANYONE HOME IN THE HOUSE TODAY/TONIGHT?

Ephesians 2:8 (Amplified Bible)

8For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved ([a]delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;


Ephesians 2:8 (New International Version)

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
Ephesians 2:8 (New American Standard Bible)


8For (A)by grace you have been saved (B)through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (C)the gift of God;

Ephesians 2:8 (King James Version)


8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Ephesians 2:8 (New King James Version)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,


How many translations do you need in order to see that it is a gift and there is nothing that you/I can do to add or subtract from that?

[Cyber Munchkin]

Originally Posted by Raelyn28

As I read through this thread I have to scratch my head in amazement as to how certain "well meaning" Christians can complicate issues and get off topic like they do.

The title of Mike's thread is SALVATION IS THROUGH FAITH ALONE IN CHRIST ALONE; NOT BY WORKS.

What is so difficult about that title? The Bible CLEARLY states that Salvation is a gift from God. Who would ever give somebody a gift and expect that person to work for it?

Come on you guys/girls we just had Christmas, remember? Let me ask you? Did you people give your families and kids gifts and then expect them to work for those gifts. I don't think so.

Christ's death on the cross was a ransom for many and it was very costly... His death FOR our life and a sacrifice for sin. Simple as that.

Don't even bother to go any further (beyond the discussion of Salvation) because Mike was not posting about anything other than Salvation on this thread. End of discussion.

Quit taking what Christ did and saying "His death was not enough to save us", because that is what you are doing and saying every time you add anything else to it..

AND THIS SALVATION IS NOT OF YOURSELVES BUT IT IS A GIFT OF GOD

• the greek word for "GIFT" is dorea which means: as a gift, freely, gift, needlessly, without charge, without cost, without paying.
• IS ANYONE HOME IN THE HOUSE TODAY/TONIGHT?

Ephesians 2:8 (Amplified Bible)

8For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved ([a]delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;


Ephesians 2:8 (New International Version)

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God
Ephesians 2:8 (New American Standard Bible)


8For (A)by grace you have been saved (B)through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (C)the gift of God;

Ephesians 2:8 (King James Version)


8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Ephesians 2:8 (New King James Version)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,


How many translations do you need in order to see that it is a gift and there is nothing that you/I can do to add or subtract from that?

Praise the Lord !!!

Yep, Raelyn, I'm home! See the lights are on....come on in, let's fellowship....there is nothing better I like too do then to share in the things of my Lord and Savior Christ Jesus !!!

I totally agree with what the Holy Spirit has given you to post. Our salvation is a gift from God....through Jesus Christ!
No one can add or take from it, it is a precious gift God has chosen, ordained and set before us!

It is the most beautiful, perfect gift anyone could ever be given in their life time.

To be chosen by the grace of God and given the faith to BELIEVE in that gift.....it is a totally AWESOME opportunity!

And too think the God of all creation reaching down to open our heart's to BELIEVE in Jesus Christ a perfect gift of love, sacrificing His life on a Cross for our sin, so that one could live with the Father for all eternity is a definite "WOW". Thank you, Father!

Yet, we do see with some who are chosen to receive that gift, they can either throw it away because they don't like or want it OR one can receive the gift by faith to BELIEVE in it and treasure it in their heart's for all eternity.

I am definitely thankful to my Lord Jesus for His loving grace, by giving me the faith to believe and there is nothing I have to do, but rest in Him!!

Blessings....

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by Harold Kupp

Christy - maybe you should just bury your head in the OSAS sandpile like an ostrich and then you would not have to fear God - just like Mike.

HK

The Ostrich theology -

Hear no truth
See no truth
Speak no truth

Thanks Harold....but I think I'll stick with Jesus. Anyone who thinks they can just skate through life claiming Jesus....not doing what he told us to do is just living a fantasy salvation.

According to Mike....you can even reject Christ outright after claiming him and still be saved....but Jesus says different and so Mike and his OSAS philosophy fails miserably:

Originally Posted by Mike555

That's right legalist. Once someone believes in Christ for salvation, they are saved even if they turn around and reject Christ after having accepted Him as Savior. And it is amazing. This is something that people such as yourself will never understand.

John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.


6"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

7"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

8"My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.

9"Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.
10"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by EJScott

I don't see a separation of faith and works how can there be?
Matthew 7 :16
You will know them by their fruits.
Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles.
James 2:18
But someone will say you have faith I have deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

Faith and works can't be separated, it is part of becoming a new person, most automatically.

EXACTLY....but some people still insist that it can.

[Jremy]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

Can't argue with that. It's called systematic theology

Absolutely. Many errors could be avoided by following its approach.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by Mike555

You either believe the clear words of the Bible or you don't. You obviously don't.

Mike, even Satan believes the words, and he knows they are true, yet he is not going to heaven.

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by Raelyn28

As I read through this thread I have to scratch my head in amazement as to how certain "well meaning" Christians can complicate issues and get off topic like they do.

The title of Mike's thread is SALVATION IS THROUGH FAITH ALONE IN CHRIST ALONE; NOT BY WORKS.

What is so difficult about that title? The Bible CLEARLY states that Salvation is a gift from God. Who would ever give somebody a gift and expect that person to work for it?....

I think that you are preaching to the choir, a common thing done by those who buy into and aggressively promote the Calvinist notions of OSAS that apparently were invented by scholars in the 1600's.

I think that most if not all knowledgeable Christians accept the fact that salvation is only in and through Jesus Christ, there's no argument as you seem to think there is. By his atoning sacrifice, Christ made it POSSIBLE for us to be forgiven of our sins and to return to celestial realms.

Stop right there and we're all on the same page!


The problem arises when you and your Calvinist fellow travelers begin to attempt to deceive sincere Christians into believing that they can just ignore God's commandments and don't even have to love one another in order to gain favor with God and be cleansed from sin to the point where they can stand eternally in the presence of God.


I think that the Lord offers all of us salvation. He requires that we prayerfully search and find within ourselves as individuals sufficient faith in him and his saving offer to motivate us to REACH OUT to him and accept his gift.

He stands at the door and knocks, he would gather us under his wings as a hen gathers her chicks. But it's up to US to go to that door, open it, and let him and his saving precepts and ordinances come into our life.

You are I are quite possibly still on the same page up to this point.


But, as I see it, then having opened the door and tasted of his loving offer, we must endure to the end of our lives in keeping all of God's commandments as best we can, swiftly repenting and forsaking the sin when we fall, and living with love in our hearts for all.

This life is a time of learning, a time to PREPARE to meet God, a time of trial, testing, and sacrifice. A time to prove that we are willing and able to be obedient to God who sees the bigger picture and wants only good for us, a time to refine ourselves to the point where we can live forever in complete harmony with others, a time to learn to tolerate diversity, a time to learn to LOVE unconditionally.

With respect for your right to believe whatever you will, that's where you and your Calvinist associates commonly drop out and present your own sad version of scripture, a cop out really, wishful thinking, hopeless hope, denial of the purpose of living. And worst yet, you aggressively attempt to force others to believe your notions by generating fears in tender souls that if they don't believe exactly as you do they'll surely at the end of their mortal lives be thrust forever by a loving? God into a lake of fire and brimstone! (How absolutely ugly and unChristian a tactic in my opinion.)

As I see it, it is an evil and deceitful deed to preach that we have nothing to do to gain salvation, and that God will force us to heaven...


We are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ absolutely, there is no other way, nobody else has the power to save and exalt us.

But we are not saved in our sins but from them, saved after we have sincerely done all we can in this lifetime to live the way Christ taught us to live.


Faith, grace, doing good to others, love, they are ALL required of God's children on earth...



-----
"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved." 2 Nephi 10: 24

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/10/24#24


"For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." 2 Nephi 25: 23

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/25/23#23

[ChristyGrl]

Matthew 7
A Tree and Its Fruit

15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.


16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

19"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20"So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Lawlessness = Gr. Anomia (Strong's 458)

1) the condition of without law
a) because ignorant of it
b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Hmmm.....so Jesus says here anyone who DOES NOT bear good fruit is thrown into the fire....and then goes on to say that he will declare to anyone who practices lawlessness (VIOLATORS OF THE LAW/THOSE WHO DO NOT PRACTICE THE LAW) Depart from me.....I NEVER KNEW YOU!!! So, Jesus makes it pretty crystal clear that bearing good fruit by practicing the law will keep you out of the fire.

I think this should clear up any misunderstandings anyone could possibly have regarding the Faith Alone & OSAS false doctrine that is being purported on this thread.

BTW....I urge anyone who is confused about the words translated as iniquity, wickedness, lawlessness, etc. to do a word study on it....they all come from this main Gr word Anomia which is mistranlsated numerous times throughout the NT.....it actually means those who violate the law or do not practice the law.

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by justamere10

The problem arises when you and your Calvinist fellow travelers begin to attempt to deceive sincere Christians into believing that they can just ignore God's commandments and don't even have to love one another in order to gain favor with God and be cleansed from sin to the point where they can stand eternally in the presence of God.

That's legalism of love.....I don't love others in order to gain God's favor or to be cleansed of sin. I love others because it is automatic and it pleases God. "Works" is very important for salvation..."faith without works is dead" but works is not a requirement of salvation but evidence that one is saved. I don't love to be saved I love because I am saved.