Salvation is Through Faith Alone In Christ Alone; Not by your Works (Latter-Day Saints, Lutheran)
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In your opinion, can saved person repeatedly use your 'rebound technique' to repent sins which he knowingly commits on daily bases? If you plan to repeat the sin day after day, then I'd say that person was never saved in the first place and is wasting his time going through the rebound routine. What is the difference between a routine rebound, and performing a preemptive rebound? Might as well ask for forgiveness BEFORE getting hitting the needle, because there is always the danger of overdosing and not getting a chance to perform the ritual afterwards.
When I was lost, I knew God, but I doubted if God knew me. I used to drink in the weekends and then repent, and then repeat the next weekend, and such behaviour made me wonder if I was was even saved. It is exactly what satan wants. He wants us to doubt our salvation and to have a lukewarm relationship with God. No, such problems need to be identified and eliminated, because they stand in the way of you strengthening your relationship with God. If you let them fester, they could ruin your relationship with God entirely. Can one lose his salvation is a good question, and I think only God knows. I think it is possible to lose it if you turn your back and go your own way and never look back. There are verses in the Bible which suggest 'once saved always saved', but there are also verses which suggest that if you don't live like a Christian, He will no longer know you when you knock on the door. It's not for me to say, but I wouldn't take any chances and live in sin and still claim to be saved. It is good to pray and ask God to identify problems areas in your life which are still off and need improvement. No one will ever be perfect, but it is best to be as perfect as we can.
1 John 1:9 is not a license to sin. As it says in Galatians 6:7 'Do not be deceived. God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.'
1 John 1:9, 'Rebound', is a license to grow up spiritually. Everyone sins. Everyone is tempted by the world, and the flesh. Not too many people are tempted directly by Satan himself as he can only be in one place at a time and has more important things to do. No Christian who desires to grow up spiritually is going to sin willy nilly all the livelong day. But every Christian regardless of level of spiritual growth is going to deliberately commit sins that he knows are sins, from time to time, because we all have sin natures and that's what we do. We might decide to gossip. Or we might decide to tell a little white lie for whatever reason. Or we might judge someone. Or we might give in to pride. Whatever it is, sooner or later, every Christian deliberately commits a sin that he knows is a sin. And when he does, that is what 1 John 1:9 is for.
Now, there are people who believe in Christ and then may turn around and reject Him. They are still saved, but they will act in accordance to the dictates of their own particular sin nature. Some may live in such a way that they sin till the cows come home. Some won't.
The issue is not that a believer won't knowingly commit sins from time to time. But rather, a believer who wants to obey God will not go around sinning all over the place. But he will sin. It is unavoidable. And that is why God has provided in grace, the prinicple of 1 John 1:9.
But let's say that a believer does have a habitual sin. One that he can't stop commiting. Let's say he is an alcoholic, or maybe he can't help but to keep from lusting after something. And yet, he wants to grow up spiritually. If he simply names the sin to God every time he commits it, and forgets it and moves on and continues to learn and apply the word of God, he will eventually overcome that sin and not commit it anymore.
And lastly, if someone does believe in Christ and then continues to sin willingly and names that sin to God everytime he commits it, and I mean this person loves to sin, has no interest in stopping his sin, he will be forgiven for the sin if and/or when he names it, but he won't make any spiritual progress. And indeed, he will continue to come under increasing amounts of divine discipline even to the point of being taken out of this life under maximum divine discipline if he doesn't change his ways. But he is still saved. The discipline is designed by God to get that believers attention and alert him to his need to turn away from his disobedience. If he won't turn away from that disobedience, than God may very well simply take him on home in a state of disgrace.
The fact of the matter is, is that most Christians don't even know to simply name their sin to God, and so after the very first sin that that believer commits after salvation, he gets out of fellowship and remains under the control of his sin nature for the rest of his life. He will have no spiritual growth but he is still saved and will simply be transferred from time into eternity as a spiritually immature believer.
Understand that salvation is simply a matter of making a decision to place your trust in Christ for salvation. It has nothing to do with whether or not you continue to sin. Your spiritual life does, but not your salvation. Unbelievers sin, and believers sin. When the believer sins, it is handled by God as a family matter. (Prov. 3:11-12; Heb. 12:5-13; Revelation 3:19-21).
And I'll say it again so no one misunderstands. Salvation by grace is not a license to sin, and the principle of 1 John 1:9 is not a license to sin. They are a license to grow up spiritually.
What I'm trying to accomplish, by my little exercise, is prove a point....that JESUS never taught the modern day cheap gospel of the "Faith Alone Doctrine". Jesus ALWAYS taught faith & works salvation.
And so did Paul... Pauls writings are twisted so much that modern Christians using selective citing make it seem that Paul contradicted Jesus.
The following quote expresses Paul's position and all of his other writings must be understood in such a way that Paul is not contradicting himself.
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
That statement cannot be misunderstood or twisted - it can only be ignored.
And I'll say it again so no one misunderstands. Salvation by grace is not a license to sin, and the principle of 1 John 1:9 is not a license to sin. They are a license to grow up spiritually.
That's the point, and to those who think it is a license to sin, I would say to test themselves as instructed in the Bible to make sure they were indeed saved when they think they were.
I see you've skirted the question yet again blathering about what Paul says....I don't want to hear what Paul says, I want to hear what JESUS says:
I want you to prove your "Faith Alone Doctrine" strictly by what JESUS said.....I'd like you to provide me with some scripture from the RED words of JESUS that this is what he taught.....show me from the RED words only of JESUS that one is saved only by having faith and no works at all....you will find these in the gospels.
Those are the words of Jesus in Acts 26:14-18. Complete with all the Red lettering of the words of Jesus. I told you plainly that it is Jesus who is speaking to Paul. This is after He was resurrected. You are without excuse in not recognizing this.
Last edited by Michael Way; 01-11-2010 at 05:20 PM..
Now, there are people who believe in Christ and then may turn around and reject Him. They are still saved, but they will act in accordance to the dictates of their own particular sin nature. Some may live in such a way that they sin till the cows come home. Some won't.
Amazing - even if they reject Christ they will still be blessed with eternal life in heaven.
What Mike is saying is that one cannot distinguish between one who is born of God and one who is not. They both sin and you cannot tell them apart. Those who sin and reject Jesus act just like those who are true children of God.
On the other hand the apostle John said:
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God.
It seems likely that the child of Satan would say they look just like the child of God.
HK
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
And I'll say it again so no one misunderstands. Salvation by grace is not a license to sin, and the principle of 1 John 1:9 is not a license to sin. They are a license to grow up spiritually.
[/quote]
Mike is not issuing a license to sin - just temporary permits .
Amazing - even if they reject Christ they will still be blessed with eternal life in heaven.
What Mike is saying is that one cannot distinguish between one who is born of God and one who is not. They both sin and you cannot tell them apart. Those who sin and reject Jesus act just like those who are true children of God.
On the other hand the apostle John said:
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God.
It seems likely that the child of Satan would say they look just like the child of God.
HK
1Jn 3:7 Little children, [B
let no man deceive you:[/b] he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
That's right legalist. Once someone believes in Christ for salvation, they are saved even if they turn around and reject Christ after having accepted Him as Savior. And it is amazing. This is something that people such as yourself will never understand.
And so did Paul... Pauls writings are twisted so much that modern Christians using selective citing make it seem that Paul contradicted Jesus.
The following quote expresses Paul's position and all of his other writings must be understood in such a way that Paul is not contradicting himself.
Rom 2:13 [B
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. [/b]
That statement cannot be misunderstood or twisted - it can only be ignored.
HK
And yet you have misunderstood and twisted. Here is what C.I. Scofied writes concerning Romans 2:13.
quote
(2:7) In vv. 7 and 13 the cases are hypothetical. Paul is not teaching the possibility of salvation by works but is, rather, showing why all men without exception are lost. As he later states, no man has continued in well doing, nor is he a doer of the law (cp. 3:19-20). The means of justification for sinners, entirely by faith in Christ, is set forth in 3:21:-8:39.unquote
(New Scofield Reference Edition, footnote for Romans 2:7, p. 1212)
The purpose of Romans is to show that man is NOT saved by the law, but through faith in Christ.
Are you dense lady? Those are the words of Jesus in Acts 26:14-18. Complete with all the Red lettering of the words of Jesus. I told you plainly that it is Jesus who is speaking to Paul. This is after He was resurrected. You are without excuse in not recognizing this.
Did you learn how to read???? What in the verse you posted even remotely answers the question I posed to you??? Here let me give it to you again since you're having trouble with it:
I want you to prove your "Faith Alone Doctrine" strictly by what JESUS said.....I'd like you to provide me with some scripture from the RED words of JESUS that this is what he taught.....show me from the RED words only of JESUS that one is saved only by having faith and no works at all....you will find these in the gospels.
If you can't do it....just say so.
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