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One bad thing is the horrible witness it is to others who are not believers because they end up thinking we are no different than the world..
And the other one is the question of us being OSAS ???
Here is a very good video with alot of scriptural reference that examines this. No matter what side you come down on I believe you will get something out of this..
We are different than the rest of the World. We believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior and he died to forgive us of our sins. The world rejects Christ.
To elaborate: "For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ".
So - righteousness is a gift which we are graced with. It IS a "get out of jail free card". The jail is sin (missing the bullseye - which is perfect love).
Now - if you think the gospel is about earning a ticket to some eternal cosmic party then you will never understand what grace is, or the "gift of grace" (which is righteousness) or the fact that we are sitting now in heavenly places and have already (past tense) been 'glorified' before the foundation of the world:
Bottom line is that many Christians don't understand any of this and continue to doubt/wonder/argue about how they will earn a ticket to 'heaven' (by obeying the commandments, or believing the 'right' thing the 'right' way etc etc) and they continue to live (somewhat) in darkness.
Sad really.
But: Be of good cheer. Just love God and all people and everything will turn out fine. EVERYTHING!
Romans 7:7-25 7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”b8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. 14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.c For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
I am being convicted over a "Christian" friend who battles with porn and I have not been entirely honest with him about my opinions based on scripture when he asks me because he was told by a pastor that he is still saved, he says, "just keep praying to God to deliver you from this particular sin" all the while he is still looking at it and then crying to me that God isn't anwering his prayers. Really is my friend saved? He still has the account, he makes time during the day, he sits at the computer, fires it up and then logs on. Do we Christians use God's grace as a get out of jail free card? I can understand a Christian who cusses in the fit of rage and is praying to God for more patience and self control. I see that as falling into sin but a Christian who has to go through all these steps to look at porn is diving headfirst, swimming in sin. Is my friend truly saved? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?
What really is God's grace and is it what most of us think it is. Is it a free ticket into heaven all the while being tolerant and coexisting with our pet sins or is it a grace He bestowes to deliver us from the power of sin? Do we Christians make light of our pet sin, take for granted God's grace and mercy. We commit the act and say, God will forgive me? I know I do this. Doesn't that make my friend and I hypocrites? and is guilt enough to know you are saved?
I have heard atheists question us on this many times. That we can do anything and get away with it
(Revelations 3:16) 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
That was my particular sin, one of them, anyway...God does not always answer your prayers when YOU want them answered...it is all in His good time to fit His purposes...Have you ever heard the of the story of a father who cathces his son smoking and instead of punishing him he makes him smoke a whole carton of cigarrettes until the son turns green and pukes thereby giving him a bad taste for smoking ensuring that the son does not pick up the habit later?...i have know several people like this in my lifetime and there fathers did this to them and made them so sick of cigarrettes that they did not want anything to do with them and never picked up the habit...The fact that your friend is coming to you in remorse is a good sign that the Holy Spirit is laying guilt on him otherwise he would not feel guilty...Sometimes the devil can influence a christian to the extent that he causes him to fall and then turns around and says that he cannot really be a christian thus causing him to be ineffectual for wittnessing...Read Romans in a meditative state, Paul addresses this same thing...If we, still in the flesh, are able to walk righteous, then we should have had that ability to do so all along, and Christ should not have had to die for us...Paul says we have liberty in Christ to do all things, but not all things are benifitial...What do you think he is saying here?
What about all those Christians who have been divorced (over 50% of the evangelicals)... do they also use God's grace as a get out of jail free card? After all no sin is better or worse than another.
We are different than the rest of the World. We believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior and he died to forgive us of our sins. The world rejects Christ.
Sometimes I wonder if it really is the world that rejects the Christ, or just rejects the Christian version of it.
I have heard so many times that people, who are not Christians, yet have studied it, say that they love our Jesus Christ, and His message. They can also understand why He died for the sins of the world.
But having seen what the religion of Christianity has done to the world in the last 1900+ years,,,they are turned off by it. And if it wasn't for the conduct of those who claim to follow Him, they would follow Him. The most famous was Gandhi.
I know this is not how you are, as you have a great heart.
I was just responding as to why it seems the world rejects Christ. I think it isn't Christ they are rejecting,,,but rather it is us.
What about all those Christians who have been divorced (over 50% of the evangelicals)... do they also use God's grace as a get out of jail free card? After all no sin is better or worse than another.
I would place the blame on the leadership that married them.
Did they attend counseling? Did they fully understand marriage from a biblical perspective? Do they understand it from a Jesus Christ perspective?
The grace of God is abused among His people. They realize NOT what they do, as what they see from the world, they do. Including the leadership. The congregations just follow what they see, and what they hear.
Sometimes I wonder if it really is the world that rejects the Christ, or just rejects the Christian version of it.
I have heard so many times that people, who are not Christians, yet have studied it, say that they love our Jesus Christ, and His message. They can also understand why He died for the sins of the world.
But having seen what the religion of Christianity has done to the world in the last 1900+ years,,,they are turned off by it. And if it wasn't for the conduct of those who claim to follow Him, they would follow Him. The most famous was Gandhi.
I know this is not how you are, as you have a great heart.
I was just responding as to why it seems the world rejects Christ. I think it isn't Christ they are rejecting,,,but rather it is us.
..........
It is because of their sin....
John 3:19-21 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
Also Jesus warned us.....
John 15:18-19
18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
19. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Mark 13:13
And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
John 15:24-25
If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father.
But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’
1John 3:13
Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you.
Sometimes I wonder if it really is the world that rejects the Christ, or just rejects the Christian version of it.
No, they reject Christ.
Quote:
I have heard so many times that people, who are not Christians, yet have studied it, say that they love our Jesus Christ, and His message. They can also understand why He died for the sins of the world.
But having seen what the religion of Christianity has done to the world in the last 1900+ years,,,they are turned off by it. And if it wasn't for the conduct of those who claim to follow Him, they would follow Him.
I would disagree with that. The barrier to people's faith does not lie outside them in other followers of Christ. The problem lies within them:
"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." (John 3:19-21)
I think it is an all-too common error in modern Christendom that people attribute man's rejection of Christ to things that the church has done wrong. To be sure, Christians do a lot of wrong things. But to say that this is why people reject Christ is to overlook what the Bible says about man's nature and the real reason he rebels against God. According to the John 3 passage above, people are not neutral, needing only to see positive evidence of the truths of Christianity before they believe. Rather, they are anything but neutral. The text says that they "loved darkness rather than light," and that despite the fact that the light had come into the world. It is for this reason that people are judged.
I would disagree with that. The barrier to people's faith does not lie outside them in other followers of Christ. The problem lies within them:
"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." (John 3:19-21)
I think it is an all-too common error in modern Christendom that people attribute man's rejection of Christ to things that the church has done wrong. To be sure, Christians do a lot of wrong things. But to say that this is why people reject Christ is to overlook what the Bible says about man's nature and the real reason he rebels against God. According to the John 3 passage above, people are not neutral, needing only to see positive evidence of the truths of Christianity before they believe. Rather, they are anything but neutral. The text says that they "loved darkness rather than light," and that despite the fact that the light had come into the world. It is for this reason that people are judged.
Amen....
It is easier to judge and blame the Christian, then to look at their own sin .....and live with the guilt that their sin brings upon them !!!
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