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Old 01-12-2010, 05:45 PM
 
696 posts, read 767,123 times
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Again I encourage you to read this thru.

As with the post Jesus Christ is God I submit to you while you might feel this has been rehashed over and over again, I beg you to reconsider any past notions. I encourage you to read. This topic is even more complex and I pray that I can address your posts with wisdom and humility. Let me present the case of the Holy Spirit. Again this comes from Practical Christian Theology by Floyd H Barackman. This book is simply in form and a must for those who truely discern the word. Do not approach it in your worldviews, but in the newness of Christ.

Nature of The Holy Spirit.

It is common among false teachings to deny the personhood of the Holy Spirit. Of note it is pointed to the word Spirit as being gender neutral as a reason. Yet let us look at what we can see in him. There are references of the Holy Spirit in the masculine.

1) He possesses features of personhood. He is self aware and abel to self determine. He has individuality, moral awareness, and perpetuity. He has intelligence, emotion, and will.

2) He does the work that persons do. He teaches, he reproves and convicts, he interceds, and calls out.

3) His responses to human action and needs indicate His Personhood. He grieves over sin, He gives satisfaction, and He imparts power.

4) Things may be fone to the Holy Spirit and his Personhood. He can be obeyed or disobeyed, he can be lied to, resisted, blasphemed, and insulted.

5) His relation to other beings such as Christ and other believers indicates Personhood.

He is God

1) Peter refers to the Holy Spirit as God. A brief example is when Peter addressed the sin of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts chapter 5. He points to both as equal and that they both sinned against both yet as equal. This is a small example numerous others can be used as well.

2) He has all the attributes of God. Life, eternity, omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience, veracity, holiness, righteousness, grace, love, and sovereignity.

3) He does the work of God. He was active in creation with God the Father and God the Son, he inspired the prophets, he brought about the conception of Jeus' human nature, and he produces the new birth (Those who accept Christ as God and Saviour to man).

Work of The Holy Spirit

1) He is involved in the total work of God. Together with God the Father and God the Son he devised and administers the decree of creation, preservation, providence, revelation, and salvation.

2) He enables certain men to receive special revelation. The work of the Holy Spirit is divine revelation to man.

3 He strives with men, he comes upon men, and he exists with His people.


As with the post on Christ is God I encourage you to think on this before you react. As I mentioned, knee jerk reaction is common and indicates a lack of the desire to discern. This again is not a matter of doctrine, but a matter of the core of being Christian. One must learn to understand the seperation of the two.

May The Lord God Jesus Christ find you in Truth.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,420,472 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
Again I encourage you to read this thru.

As with the post Jesus Christ is God I submit to you while you might feel this has been rehashed over and over again, I beg you to reconsider any past notions. I encourage you to read. This topic is even more complex and I pray that I can address your posts with wisdom and humility. Let me present the case of the Holy Spirit. Again this comes from Practical Christian Theology by Floyd H Barackman. This book is simply in form and a must for those who truely discern the word. Do not approach it in your worldviews, but in the newness of Christ.

Nature of The Holy Spirit.

It is common among false teachings to deny the personhood of the Holy Spirit. Of note it is pointed to the word Spirit as being gender neutral as a reason. Yet let us look at what we can see in him. There are references of the Holy Spirit in the masculine.

1) He possesses features of personhood. He is self aware and abel to self determine. He has individuality, moral awareness, and perpetuity. He has intelligence, emotion, and will.

2) He does the work that persons do. He teaches, he reproves and convicts, he interceds, and calls out.

3) His responses to human action and needs indicate His Personhood. He grieves over sin, He gives satisfaction, and He imparts power.

4) Things may be fone to the Holy Spirit and his Personhood. He can be obeyed or disobeyed, he can be lied to, resisted, blasphemed, and insulted.

5) His relation to other beings such as Christ and other believers indicates Personhood.

He is God

1) Peter refers to the Holy Spirit as God. A brief example is when Peter addressed the sin of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts chapter 5. He points to both as equal and that they both sinned against both yet as equal. This is a small example numerous others can be used as well.

2) He has all the attributes of God. Life, eternity, omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience, veracity, holiness, righteousness, grace, love, and sovereignity.

3) He does the work of God. He was active in creation with God the Father and God the Son, he inspired the prophets, he brought about the conception of Jeus' human nature, and he produces the new birth (Those who accept Christ as God and Saviour to man).

Work of The Holy Spirit

1) He is involved in the total work of God. Together with God the Father and God the Son he devised and administers the decree of creation, preservation, providence, revelation, and salvation.

2) He enables certain men to receive special revelation. The work of the Holy Spirit is divine revelation to man.

3 He strives with men, he comes upon men, and he exists with His people.


As with the post on Christ is God I encourage you to think on this before you react. As I mentioned, knee jerk reaction is common and indicates a lack of the desire to discern. This again is not a matter of doctrine, but a matter of the core of being Christian. One must learn to understand the seperation of the two.

May The Lord God Jesus Christ find you in Truth.
What is so complicated about knowing that God as spirit is the Holy Spirit?

God is spirit.. holy spirit is spirit... Does that not tell you something?

How can the spirit of a spirit-being be a different person? That makes no sense to me...

I can readily agree that the Holy spirit is God... no problem with that.. but really is the holy spirit a different person? In order to establish that you must first identify some fundamental difference between God and the holy spirit. What you have in your OP is that the holy spirit and God are the same in every way....IMO.

Can you please show me the fundamental difference between God and the holy spirit that indicates they are two separate entities?

This is another of those doctrinal issues that makes little sense and I feel is overcomplicated.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:46 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,784,570 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
What is so complicated about knowing that God as spirit is the Holy Spirit?

God is spirit.. holy spirit is spirit... Does that not tell you something?

How can the spirit of a spirit-being be a different person? That makes no sense to me...

I can readily agree that the Holy spirit is God... no problem with that.. but really is the holy spirit a different person? In order to establish that you must first identify some fundamental difference between God and the holy spirit. What you have in your OP is that the holy spirit and God are the same in every way....IMO.

Can you please show me the fundamental difference between God and the holy spirit that indicates they are two separate entities?

This is another of those doctrinal issues that makes little sense and I feel is overcomplicated.
I agree. The Father is Spirit. God is Spirit. I believe they are one and the same. The Father is the Holy Spirit. It`s the part of himself (the Father) that he puts into everyone. Jesus was full of the spirit of God(the Father) or the Holy Spirit (the Father)..one and the same.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
823 posts, read 1,085,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
I agree. The Father is Spirit. God is Spirit. I believe they are one and the same. The Father is the Holy Spirit. It`s the part of himself (the Father) that he puts into everyone. Jesus was full of the spirit of God(the Father) or the Holy Spirit (the Father)..one and the same.
Exactly....and we pray to God for his Love and the Holy Spirit which IS a part of our Heavenly Father fills our souls with his very divine essence so we also may partake and experience what Jesus did and the more that we ask the more that we shall receive and in turn it is a wonderful feeling of Love and connection to God.

The Truth does not get much easier than this. THIS is what also makes Jesus very happy. That we are LISTENING to what he had to say.

God Bless!
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,420,472 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
I agree. The Father is Spirit. God is Spirit. I believe they are one and the same. The Father is the Holy Spirit. It`s the part of himself (the Father) that he puts into everyone. Jesus was full of the spirit of God(the Father) or the Holy Spirit (the Father)..one and the same.
I agree. The power of God should radiate from us as well.

So I suppose we are at odds with the OP in that the Holy Spirit is a separate Godhead.
In reading some scripture I noticed Acts 10:38.

So I immediately thought "how does one anoint someone with another someone?"

"You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good, and healing all who were oppressed by the devil; for God was with Him." (Acts 10:38)

And what about Power? Did God anoint him with both or just one?

This verse is interesting in that I would transliterate(?) it differently reading it word for word ('course this is from Strong's as I don't read Greek yet.):


jesus the of Nazareth how anointed him the god spirit (most) holy and (miraculous) power passed through (spread) doing good and healing all the oppressed of the slanderous for the god was with him


This way you can see that it is word for word "god spirit most holy" not Holy Spirit...

And I think the verse makes more sense if we clean it up for readability:

Jesus of Nazareth, who was anointed by God's most holy spirit and power, passed through doing good and healing the oppressed of the slanderous, for God was with him.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:27 PM
 
696 posts, read 767,123 times
Reputation: 66
First let us look to the Father as that he eternally generates the Son. In our human experience generation is a single act of a human father. With respect to those who would think otherwise, it is the human father who passes on personhood and the propogation of human nature. By an eternal process the Father's generative action makes the divine nature common to both Himself and the Son. There is no new creation, but a single entity that is One. This also again points to Jesus is God.

Yet, in a similar way the divine essence, possessed in common by the Father and Son, is communicated by them to the Holy Spirit. This is done so that it again remains undivided, but wholly possessed by the Holy Spirit as well as God the Father and God the Son. The designation "Spirit" more aptly means "breath" or "wind". While the Son was generated it is thought that the Holy Spirit is more the eternal breath of the Father, but through the Son.

Praise God, dont you see?

I saved this for the next post for a reason. My post Jesus is God was meant to open, but it is truely to the Holy Spirit that justifies this. It is a marvel of such magnitude that it makes me dizzy with anticipation. Imagine God the Father, being infinite manifested himself to fallen man, thru God the Son, by which we all can receive the Holy Spirit, THE VERY BREATH OF GOD!!!

Do you not see why Christians proclaim glory to our Lord God Jesus Christ? Do you see why you must proclaim Christ is God? It is a miracle beyond imagining. How simple in thought for man, but infinite and majestic in design. God created of himself The Word made flesh. He poured himself into Christ, God the Son, to regenerate all man. THIS IS LOVE OF WHICH YOU ALL CLAIM!!!! I have seen many posts to point this to you, but this is what many try to say, but do not know. This is why I praise basic Bible studies, but point there is greater logic than can be gleaned from a touch of scripture and a thought of man. This is why people say this is not Christian to think Jesus as not God. To do so denies the very
Breath of God upon a person. Truely a great and wonderous thing.

This is why The Lord moved me to post what I did of Jesus being God yesterday, and now has moved me to finish this work. This is what Christianity means. I encourage you all to partake of this thought and in time it will seem less like confusion. This is why when I say I once used your words, respectfully I learned I was foolish and truely saw nothing and no Truth. Let all who would discern truth praise God for such an insight!!!

Praise The Lord God Jesus Christ that he breathed the Holy Spirit to man, of which no man can be saved without!!!!
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:55 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,784,570 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
First let us look to the Father as that he eternally generates the Son. In our human experience generation is a single act of a human father. With respect to those who would think otherwise, it is the human father who passes on personhood and the propogation of human nature. By an eternal process the Father's generative action makes the divine nature common to both Himself and the Son. There is no new creation, but a single entity that is One. This also again points to Jesus is God.

Yet, in a similar way the divine essence, possessed in common by the Father and Son, is communicated by them to the Holy Spirit. This is done so that it again remains undivided, but wholly possessed by the Holy Spirit as well as God the Father and God the Son. The designation "Spirit" more aptly means "breath" or "wind". While the Son was generated it is thought that the Holy Spirit is more the eternal breath of the Father, but through the Son.

Praise God, dont you see?

I saved this for the next post for a reason. My post Jesus is God was meant to open, but it is truely to the Holy Spirit that justifies this. It is a marvel of such magnitude that it makes me dizzy with anticipation. Imagine God the Father, being infinite manifested himself to fallen man, thru God the Son, by which we all can receive the Holy Spirit, THE VERY BREATH OF GOD!!!

Do you not see why Christians proclaim glory to our Lord God Jesus Christ? Do you see why you must proclaim Christ is God? It is a miracle beyond imagining. How simple in thought for man, but infinite and majestic in design. God created of himself The Word made flesh. He poured himself into Christ, God the Son, to regenerate all man. THIS IS LOVE OF WHICH YOU ALL CLAIM!!!! I have seen many posts to point this to you, but this is what many try to say, but do not know. This is why I praise basic Bible studies, but point there is greater logic than can be gleaned from a touch of scripture and a thought of man. This is why people say this is not Christian to think Jesus as not God. To do so denies the very
Breath of God upon a person. Truely a great and wonderous thing.

This is why The Lord moved me to post what I did of Jesus being God yesterday, and now has moved me to finish this work. This is what Christianity means. I encourage you all to partake of this thought and in time it will seem less like confusion. This is why when I say I once used your words, respectfully I learned I was foolish and truely saw nothing and no Truth. Let all who would discern truth praise God for such an insight!!!

Praise The Lord God Jesus Christ that he breathed the Holy Spirit to man, of which no man can be saved without!!!!
Who came first? The Father...Son...or Holy Spirit?
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:39 AM
 
696 posts, read 767,123 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Who came first? The Father...Son...or Holy Spirit?
Moderator cut: insulting Let me ask you something. Did you know Christ when you emerged from your mother's womb or before it? This is a question which bears fruit. Yours is clearly answered in the two posts.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-13-2010 at 01:11 PM.. Reason: Please attack the idea not the person with insults
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,146,627 times
Reputation: 667
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Who came first? The Father...Son...or Holy Spirit?
The Father.
The Son was created next (not really sure how or what order He created all beings though) and the Holy Spirit is God's instrument.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:46 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,784,570 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
The Father.
The Son was created next (not really sure how or what order He created all beings though) and the Holy Spirit is God's instrument.
Thanks rev. I`m not sure what was so hard about that question. Especially when we are talking about God and a trinity,etc. Seems like a perfectly logical question to me.
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