U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-16-2010, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 2,513,465 times
Reputation: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Does he read the Bible or did he just develop his beliefs from his limited exposure to the Word?

And is he like a medium? If so, that may explain why he is expereincing this next encounter in his quote below.



I had read at one time on the internet that someone was being visited by aliens and he prayed to Jesus for help and the aliens mysteriously vanished. So the next time yoru brother has one: advise him to call on Jesus Christ for help because those are not aliens.



Sorry to hear about your sister.



People embracing the supernatural will need Jesus help to deliver them from serving them.



I reckon that you have to find out what you do agree on as firm Biblical truth and use that to give him pause, praying that God will peradventure give him knowledge unto repentance that He may recover him from the snare of the devil.

Example: if your brother believes that Jesus descended into the earth and when He had risen, the Old Testament saints were risen as well: how come not everybody in the world were risen if there was such a thing as universal salvation?

Of all the times for universalism to be applied, it would be then when He had gotten the keys to the gates of hell and death.

Matthew 27: 52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Ephesians 4: 7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Revelation 1: 17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

So if your brother believed that, why wasn't there a world wide resurrection of every living soul from hell and paradise?

As God the Father is the One that draws all men unto the Son: John 6:44

And yet Jesus had the keys to hell and death. He was there in Paradise: Abraham's bosom, so those in hell could see across the chasm and hear apparantly whatever they needed to hear from Jesus to believe and be saved if there really was such a thing as universalism, but no.

People are still in hell.

One could say that God word stands that after death, judgment is given.

Universalist in denial still will have to concede to a point that those in hell prefer the darkness rather than come to the light for they did not want to be reproved of their evil deeds, and so they are still in hell.

Either way, the Word of God stands true.

Hebrews 9: 26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

John 3:18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Course, he should also know that God does not want him talking to the departed but to God.

Isaiah 8:19And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

As for aliens: if God created man as the one to have dominion over the earth, how can His word be void when aliens from another planet has the upper hand on man on the earth?

Genesis 1: 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Course, if your brother does not believe in the Bible for the truth of God's words, then you may be at an impasse in trying to find a common ground for belief to reason with Him even with the help of the Lord. It may be that you will have to pray that God will reveal the truth to Him so that the truth may set him free.

Someone had shared that in ministering to muslims, they found that all they can do is pray that God will reveal His Son to them. One testified that a muslim had a dream about Jesus and woke up a believer that He is God.

Since it is God that ministers, trust Him to lead you in witnessing to Him... even if it is just to pray for him that God will reveal the truth soon.
My brother believes that the bible is a man-made book changed through the years so he doesn't believe it as the Word of God. He is into mediums, doesn't believe in Hell and thinks everyone is going to heaven.

He believes that when one dies they need to stay in their flesh (corpse) for three days in order to go to the next place or Heaven.

He says he believes in Jesus but changes the subject regarding sin...

Thanks Enow...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-16-2010, 04:27 PM
 
2,940 posts, read 3,093,332 times
Reputation: 1537
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletWren View Post
Yes, Christ knocked Paul down and spoke to him through a great light while he was on his way to persecute and arrest many who followed in that Way. He was blind for 3 days, symbolizing the time of darkness that the main body of Jews would remain without the light of Christ's truth, and then his blindness was ended. I'd say Paul converted pretty quickly when presented with the truth in that manner. But for some reason people insist that we have to make that decision in our short lifetime here on earth, (whether it be 13 years or 130) when we may be surrounded by Muslims, Buddhists, etc. and threatened with ostracism, mutilation, even death if we would dare consider even studying Christianity. Yet God will hold an 18 year old boy brainwashed from birth into his parents' and country's religion responsible for rejecting Christ and torture him endlessly for not choosing Christ. There are so many 'exceptions' people come up with that are not addressed in the Bible such as the age of accountability, as if one more day can totally determine your eternal destiny, or diminished mental capacity will give you a free pass. So how are the mentally incapacitated who committed theft, arson, murder, etc, be changed when they meet Jesus? What do they have to do or have done to them to realize the difference between right and wrong? If you think it through, God, as our creator, is responsible for us and our actions. He holds us accountable, yes, and we will reap what we sow, but He took His responsibiility when He sent His son to die on that cross for us. For the world of ungodly sinners,

That is just the beginning. How does it diminish Christ's death to save all that He came to save? If you buy a herd of cattle, is it wrong to expect the whole herd delivered to you? You would not get even one if you didn't pay for them. But if you paid for 100, getting 100 doesn't mean it wasn't necessary to pay at all in order to get them all. Just because you may not take delivery of them all at once, does not mean that you aren't extremely aware that they are yours.

Each in his own order. That's how God deals with His children. Some will take a little extra work. But he will leave the 99 who are docile and go out after the 100th who has run away in rebellion.
He is the good shepard!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2010, 06:19 PM
 
5,482 posts, read 2,698,788 times
Reputation: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
No He didn't drag Him, he pursued him..
You running from the Truth, He dragged Him. He came in blindness. He had to be lowered to humility. Raelyn28, do you really think it is UP TO YOU to be saved? Come on man, wake up!!!!! Why would God leave it up to a sinner to be in charge of his own salvation? Does that REALLY make sense to you? Come on? Do you really believe that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2010, 06:22 PM
 
5,482 posts, read 2,698,788 times
Reputation: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
There is the New Jerusalem, and there is those outside of it.
There are those in the Covenant, and there are those that are not.
Paul was very clear about this in his analogy of 1 Corinthians 7:11
That specific reconciliation, was covenantal, just as Adam's sin was covenantal. It was against God, a sin against a specific condition that Adam and God had made when He breathed life into that man, Adam, and placed him in the garden. That specific sin, which sent God's people outside and distanced from the tree of life, dead in their sins. But through Christ, those that are "in Christ" are reconciled back into that garden, to take part of that Tree of Life, and are able to be "all in all" with their Creator, the Lord God Almghty.

This is the mesage we need to teach. Not the message of "all are saved", because they aren't and no one is, until they are "in Christ", then they are saved.

Universalism, as it stands on this forum and elsewhere, is not Biblical.
All of us but Christ have been in Adam, we all need a savior. God didn't just bring some to life in vain. So why preach it? Why preach God in vain? God doesn't do things in vain. He knows the END from the very Beginning. Don't you agree? If so, then why preach His power as useless to save SOME? Can you really make the claim that God will fail to PERSUADE some? Isn't that what you really believe?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2010, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,151,611 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
All of us but Christ have been in Adam
You are incorrect. I am in Christ, therefore I am not in Adam

Quote:
we all need a savior
Yes we do. But we already recieved that savior.

Quote:
God didn't just bring some to life in vain. So why preach it? Why preach God in vain? God doesn't do things in vain.
Through Christ, He reconciled mankind from Adam's sin. Adam, was in COVENANT with God. We, as Christians, are in COVENANT with Him.

Quote:
He knows the END from the very Beginning. Don't you agree?
Yes I do.

Quote:
If so, then why preach His power as useless to save SOME? Can you really make the claim that God will fail to PERSUADE some? Isn't that what you really believe?
You are missing the point. Because of Adam's sin, we inherited death. Through Christ's payment on sin, we are reconciled. So in Christ, believe in Christ, and sin is conquered.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2010, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
1,837 posts, read 2,513,465 times
Reputation: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
You running from the Truth, He dragged Him. He came in blindness. He had to be lowered to humility. Raelyn28, do you really think it is UP TO YOU to be saved? Come on man, wake up!!!!! Why would God leave it up to a sinner to be in charge of his own salvation? Does that REALLY make sense to you? Come on? Do you really believe that?
God didn't drag Saul he intervened on behalf of his people that Saul was murdering. Don't you see God's grace in this? God can do anything He wants because He is God. God could have hit Saul with a lightening bolt but I truly believe that God saw Saul's heart and that Saul thought he was doing what he was doing for God. He was a religious leader and later said he was the chief of all sinners.

Yes, God intervened and Saul was blinded but God asked him a question, he said "Saul why do you persecute me? Saul didn't get mad, run away or reject God but he repented and humbled himself. Saul could have been like Pharoah and could have rejected God and hardened his heart but he didn't. He repented of his sin and because Saul humbled himself God changed his name.. new nature new name.. Saul to Paul.

Bottom line: I see this as grace, I see that Saul had a free-will but I also see that God intervened because of what Saul was doing to Christians.....but God KNEW what was in Sauls heart..

Regarding your other remark. I don't think it is up to me to be saved (God Saves) but God gives me a free-will. I can say no to salvation. God doesn't force anyone to accept the gift of salvation and sometimes YES we need to be humbled because of our own stupidity and bad choices and in that humility we either cry out for God or throw our fists in the air curse God and die.. Saul had the choice to do that and he didn't.

Saul was humbled because of the choices that he made..

Could I ask you boldly dear friend since you have approached me boldly with your comment on me running? What kind of earthly father do/did you have? Just curious. I am detecting or sensing that you view God as a very mean and controlling oger who whips people into submission. Where did you get that idea or concept from?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2010, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Hot-Houston Texas
20,005 posts, read 20,307,677 times
Reputation: 28023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
God didn't drag Saul he intervened on behalf of his people that Saul was murdering. Don't you see God's grace in this? God can do anything He wants because He is God. God could have hit Saul with a lightening bolt but I truly believe that God saw Saul's heart and that Saul thought he was doing what he was doing for God. He was a religious leader and later said he was the chief of all sinners.

Yes, God intervened and Saul was blinded but God asked him a question, he said "Saul why do you persecute me? Saul didn't get mad, run away or reject God but he repented and humbled himself. Saul could have been like Pharoah and could have rejected God and hardened his heart but he didn't. He repented of his sin and because Saul humbled himself God changed his name.. new nature new name.. Saul to Paul.

Bottom line: I see this as grace, I see that Saul had a free-will but I also see that God intervened because of what Saul was doing to Christians.....but God KNEW what was in Sauls heart..

Regarding your other remark. I don't think it is up to me to be saved (God Saves) but God gives me a free-will. I can say no to salvation. God doesn't force anyone to accept the gift of salvation and sometimes YES we need to be humbled because of our own stupidity and bad choices and in that humility we either cry out for God or throw our fists in the air curse God and die.. Saul had the choice to do that and he didn't.

Saul was humbled because of the choices that he made..
I agree, good post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2010, 09:26 PM
 
5,482 posts, read 2,698,788 times
Reputation: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You are incorrect. I am in Christ, therefore I am not in Adam
Oh so you were born in Christ? Shame on you for not being born in Adam... Too bad as the scriptures show that it is those in Adam that Jesus came to save.

Quote:
Yes we do. But we already recieved that savior.
But you don't really believe that. You believe that ONLY those worthy enough are going to be saved.

Quote:
Through Christ, He reconciled mankind from Adam's sin. Adam, was in COVENANT with God. We, as Christians, are in COVENANT with Him.
Really? And were you born a Christian?

[quote]


Yes I do.

[quote]

This is where you lose me. How can you and still preach a god that fails?

Quote:
You are missing the point. Because of Adam's sin, we inherited death. Through Christ's payment on sin, we are reconciled. So in Christ, believe in Christ, and sin is conquered.
Really, but then you go on to believe that sinners will be tormented for the rest of eternity. Trust me, if I conquere something - it doesn't go on to prevail. Yet your fail logic has you embracing such a failed god that is making up a home for sin to have dominion over its subject. How does that make you feel? Do you realize even that you are preaching that God is nothing but a failure? Do you realize that your preaching that God can't wait to fail in saving the wicked? Do you realize that your preaching that God will only have success if WE are willing to be saved? What kinda of deceptive ideology have you been subject to? Are you going to continue in such a practice of HATRED? I know YOU shall be saved!!!!!! I know that HITLER shall be SAVED!!! I know that DALHMER shall be saved!!!! I know this because I know God is more POWERFUL than you are preaching Him to be. I know this because God knows the END from the Beginning and knows how to PERSUADE anyone to follow Him. You DON'T believe that. You believe GOD is INCAPABLE of that. SHAME on you!!!!! REPENT!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2010, 09:31 PM
 
5,482 posts, read 2,698,788 times
Reputation: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
God didn't drag Saul he intervened on behalf of his people that Saul was murdering. Don't you see God's grace in this? God can do anything He wants because He is God. God could have hit Saul with a lightening bolt but I truly believe that God saw Saul's heart and that Saul thought he was doing what he was doing for God. He was a religious leader and later said he was the chief of all sinners.

Yes, God intervened and Saul was blinded but God asked him a question, he said "Saul why do you persecute me? Saul didn't get mad, run away or reject God but he repented and humbled himself. Saul could have been like Pharoah and could have rejected God and hardened his heart but he didn't. He repented of his sin and because Saul humbled himself God changed his name.. new nature new name.. Saul to Paul.

Bottom line: I see this as grace, I see that Saul had a free-will but I also see that God intervened because of what Saul was doing to Christians.....but God KNEW what was in Sauls heart..

Regarding your other remark. I don't think it is up to me to be saved (God Saves) but God gives me a free-will. I can say no to salvation. God doesn't force anyone to accept the gift of salvation and sometimes YES we need to be humbled because of our own stupidity and bad choices and in that humility we either cry out for God or throw our fists in the air curse God and die.. Saul had the choice to do that and he didn't.

Saul was humbled because of the choices that he made..

Could I ask you boldly dear friend since you have approached me boldly with your comment on me running? What kind of earthly father do/did you have? Just curious. I am detecting or sensing that you view God as a very mean and controlling oger who whips people into submission. Where did you get that idea or concept from?
Where is this free-will crap in the Bible? Huh? God OWNS!!!! He RULES!!! He is at total leadership. God will save you and everyone else. Shame on you for thinking God is unable or unwilling to do so. It is this madness of your understanding that creates atheists. Don't you see that the atheist throught their own God given logic have come to see how absurd your logic is? They choose to not believe in such a doctrine because obviously they can see right throught it!!!! It would make no sense to think that God would create people for the very purpose of tormenting them forever. What kinda of God would one really want to worship if that was who God actually was? - I thank God for showing me that - that is not who He is. But that man made up that crap to appease his own selfish desires of which those that believe in such are caught up in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-16-2010, 09:32 PM
 
5,482 posts, read 2,698,788 times
Reputation: 436
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
I agree, good post!
Do you really believe that God must rely on our choice? WOW - who is the real god in your thinking?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:56 PM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top