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Old 01-15-2010, 07:25 AM
 
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Part 1 in a 9 part series. Very good to listen to:


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Old 01-15-2010, 07:54 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,290,288 times
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The Bible is clear that, in his natural state, man is incapable of choosing that which is good and holy. In other words, he does not have the “free will” to choose God because his will is not free. It is constrained by his nature.

The Bible also says that we are responsible for receiving Christ as Savior. If we believe in Jesus Christ we will be saved. God knows who will be saved and God chooses who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. How these facts work together is impossible for a finite mind to comprehend yet in God's word His sovereignty and mankind's free will somehow work together in salvation

Why do people insist on trying to answer questions that are unknowable in our fallen, finite condition?
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,830,069 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
The Bible is clear that, in his natural state, man is incapable of choosing that which is good and holy. In other words, he does not have the “free will” to choose God because his will is not free. It is constrained by his nature.

The Bible also says that we are responsible for receiving Christ as Savior. If we believe in Jesus Christ we will be saved. God knows who will be saved and God chooses who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. How these facts work together is impossible for a finite mind to comprehend yet in God's word His sovereignty and mankind's free will somehow work together in salvation

Why do people insist on trying to answer questions that are unknowable in our fallen, finite condition?
Because they do not want to admit to their limitations.
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:06 AM
 
36,374 posts, read 24,438,131 times
Reputation: 5762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
The Bible is clear that, in his natural state, man is incapable of choosing that which is good and holy. In other words, he does not have the “free will” to choose God because his will is not free. It is constrained by his nature.

The Bible also says that we are responsible for receiving Christ as Savior. If we believe in Jesus Christ we will be saved. God knows who will be saved and God chooses who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. How these facts work together is impossible for a finite mind to comprehend yet in God's word His sovereignty and mankind's free will somehow work together in salvation
That is why it is BS . . . God would not have us try to believe what is nonsense to us. Under your view, there is nothing for us to do. It is pointless. God has decided ALL. Total nonsense.

Free will and Dominion means Free Will and Dominion!! There is NOTHING we can ever do to impair or reduce God's sovereignty (or add to His Glory, or whatever) . . . that is human hubris talking. We have no effect on God's status EVER.
Quote:
Why do people insist on trying to answer questions that are unknowable in our fallen, finite condition?
For the same reason they insist on promoting absurd answers.
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,226,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
That is why it is BS . . . God would not have us try to believe what is nonsense to us. Under your view, there is nothing for us to do. It is pointless. God has decided ALL. Total nonsense.

Free will and Dominion means Free Will and Dominion!! There is NOTHING we can ever do to impair or reduce God's sovereignty (or add to His Glory, or whatever) . . . that is human hubris talking. We have no effect on God's status EVER.For the same reason they insist on promoting absurd answers.
Why are people supposedly cleansed by the blood of the lamb constantly telling themselves they are fallen, corrupt.. etc? Shouldn't you be imputed with righteousness as a believer?

I just don't understand why some believe that God is unknowable but that we should know him... that they are fallen even though God says in his word they are not..

I know I am not fallen, I am not evil. I learned evil from others and had to unlearn it in order to get closer to God.

I don't adhere to the doctrine of original sin.. I thought I did but I guess after all the discussions I've had on this thread I see that I was wrong. There is no such thing as original sin. Another change in spiritual view to add to my repertoire.
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:58 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,290,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Why are people supposedly cleansed by the blood of the lamb constantly telling themselves they are fallen, corrupt.. etc? Shouldn't you be imputed with righteousness as a believer?

I just don't understand why some believe that God is unknowable but that we should know him... that they are fallen even though God says in his word they are not..

I know I am not fallen, I am not evil. I learned evil from others and had to unlearn it in order to get closer to God.

I don't adhere to the doctrine of original sin.. I thought I did but I guess after all the discussions I've had on this thread I see that I was wrong. There is no such thing as original sin. Another change in spiritual view to add to my repertoire.
If I saw that in scripture I would agree with you unfortunately I see the opposite of what you are saying in scripture
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,226,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
If I saw that in scripture I would agree with you unfortunately I see the opposite of what you are saying in scripture
Psalm 36:12 See how the evildoers lie fallen--thrown down, not able to rise!

If you are able to rise from your fall you aren't "fallen" anymore are you?

Proverbs 3:21-26
My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment,do not let them out of your sight;
they will be life for you,
an ornament to grace your neck.
Then you will go on your way in safety,
and your foot will not stumble;
when you lie down, you will not be afraid;
when you lie down, your sleep will be sweet.
Have no fear of sudden disaster
or of the ruin that overtakes the wicked,
for the Lord will be your confidence
and will keep your foot from being snared.

Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.

Romans 10:3
Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.

Isaiah 51:1
"Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness, Who seek the LORD: Look to the rock from which you were hewn And to the quarry from which you were dug.

It's in there..
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,295 posts, read 5,202,444 times
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Did Adam have free will?
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
12,736 posts, read 18,042,689 times
Reputation: 13513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
The Bible is clear that, in his natural state, man is incapable of choosing that which is good and holy. In other words, he does not have the “free will” to choose God because his will is not free. It is constrained by his nature.

The Bible also says that we are responsible for receiving Christ as Savior. If we believe in Jesus Christ we will be saved. God knows who will be saved and God chooses who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. How these facts work together is impossible for a finite mind to comprehend yet in God's word His sovereignty and mankind's free will somehow work together in salvation

Why do people insist on trying to answer questions that are unknowable in our fallen, finite condition?
That would be fine if "god" told us directly, but he/she/it isn't...other human beings claiming to be in contact with "god" are.
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:07 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,290,288 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Psalm 36:12 See how the evildoers lie fallen--thrown down, not able to rise!

If you are able to rise from your fall you aren't "fallen" anymore are you?

Proverbs 3:21-26
My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment,do not let them out of your sight;
they will be................

This is pretty simple. Only God is good and if only God is good then that only leaves us one option "evil" The bible is clear over and over again, we can do no good, that all our "good deeds" are of filthy rags, that man WILL NEVER choose the ways of God, that man is at enmity with God. How is your thought life? if your friends knew what you thought, will they think you are good?

Isaiah 64:6
6All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away

Jeremiah 17:9
9The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

Psalm 58:3
3Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward and speak lies

John 8:34
34Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.

Romans 8:7
7the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
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