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Old 01-15-2010, 07:25 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

I do not see this as losing salvation but about bearing fruit. This reminds me of these other scriptural references in how we grow in our relationship with Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 18Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 20And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

Now one would think of verse 17 as one loses salvation, but reread verse 15 and see how it ends at verse 23.

The other scriptural reference is about the difference of abiding in Him and those that are not, whethor it be by works that deny Him or living in sin. One thing stands out, those bought with a price are sealed as His forever, but the call to depart from iniquity is given to believers: those that are His.

2 Timothy 2: 18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

It is all about obtaining the eternal glory of being a vessel unto honour in God's House as opposed to the foolish virgins or the prodigal son that gave uo their inheritance for wild living, thus being destroyed to become vessels unto dishonour where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. God will wipe the tears from the eyes of those coming out of the great tribulation to get them past the loss of their first inheritance: the first fruits of the resurrection at the pre tribulational rapture event when judgment will fall on the House of God first.

2 Timothy 2:10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Who wants to be left behind when Jesus excommunicate those not abiding in Him from the Marriage Supper, the first fruits of the resurrection?

So a recap on the Good News:

Ephesians 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Loving one another is the good work we have been ordained by God to walk in.

John 15:7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17These things I command you, that ye love one another.

And keeping the faith in Jesus Christ is the good fight.

May we all trust Jesus Christ as Our Good Shepherd as well as Our Saviour in finsihing what He started in us to His glory to be vessels unto honour in God's House.

Hebrews 12: 1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Philippians 1:6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: .... 9And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,139,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

I do not see this as losing salvation but about bearing fruit. This reminds me of these other scriptural references in how we grow in our relationship with Christ.
So you think once Christ cuts one off (a believer) as a branch in him and he is cast outside to be burned that this is not about salvation??? The branches that are cut off, those not bearing fruit, are cast outside and burned.....do you think one can come back from the burning???


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Old 01-15-2010, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
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Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
So you think once Christ cuts one off (a believer) as a branch in him and he is cast outside to be burned that this is not about salvation??? The branches that are cut off, those not bearing fruit, are cast outside and burned.....do you think one can come back from the burning???


Check out this site:

Free JWOS Chapters Online | JWOS

After you've studied....we can have a conversation.
This scripture is in regards to unbelievers or those who are not saved.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:40 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
So you think once Christ cuts one off (a believer) as a branch in him and he is cast outside to be burned that this is not about salvation??? The branches that are cut off, those not bearing fruit, are cast outside and burned.....do you think one can come back from the burning???


Check out this site:

Free JWOS Chapters Online | JWOS

After you've studied....we can have a conversation.
Ahem. Your link has listed way too many sub links that I find it highly unfair that you did not compare the other two scriptural references in the OP to see what that fire was. It would have answered your question.

Reading your link would take days: mine is just a few minutes, God be willing.

Reread the first post to see what that fire is and read these scriptures below as well as to see what that fire is and what it does.

In the OP: what fire is it that burns up a man's work of wood, stubble, and hay and yet is still saved in 1 Corinthians 3:10-23?

How can the call to depart from iniquity not be connected to avoid being a vessel unto dishonour in God's House in 2 Timothy 2:18-26?

If Jesus taught excommunication, then He will do excommunication at the pre tribulational rapture event which is God's Judgment on the House of God. How else does those foolish virgins left behind finally do have their lamps shining and the prodigal son returning?

This is how Paul saw excommunication. It mirrors those left behind to go through the great tribulation.

1 Corinthians 5: 4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

So God will judge His people. He will restore them to the path of righetousness for His name's sake.

Are you saying that God is unable to save? That God being God is no sure thing for salvation?

What you are preaching is the same thing as saying that the blood of the covenant wasn't good enough to save.

Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 12: 25See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29For our God is a consuming fire.

Hebrews 12:3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Stick with the OP.

Your link is a series of threads all over the place.

Looking at some of the threads titles at that link, I can understand why you believe the way you do, but do consider this: we may not understand every hard saying of Jesus, but....

As Jesus taught, so will He do.

Luke 14: 27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. 28For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

Philippians 1:6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

That is the word of God declaring what He will do.. even for those that have gone astray like the foolish virgins or the prodigal son left behind.

I call every believer to trust the Lord as Our Good Shepherd to help them live as His to be that vessel unto honour in God's House as well as rest in Him for eternal life for He has earned the title and glory as Our Saviour.
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:07 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
This scripture is in regards to unbelievers or those who are not saved.
Thanks Raelyn for participating.

I see verse 2 as believers since they were of the vine, but not bearing fruit. They were taken away. I see that as left behind.

We are made clean by the word and by abiding in Him, we shall bear much fruit. And those that do bear fruit, He shall purge so that we may bear more fruit.

John 15: John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

It is by abiding in Him we can live the christian life as well as serving Him in the ministry for we can do nothing without Him.

I can see how you saw verse 6 as an unbeliever, but then how could he be seen as cast forth and then withered when he had no life? So he must have had life in order for him to wither, and he must have been a part of the vine to be cast forth.

So when a believer defiles the temple of God, he, which had been bought with a price and sealed as His: shall be fitted to destruction to become vessels unto dishonour in God's House.

Romans 9: 11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth 12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 28For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 29And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. 30What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

All because of the promise of verse 33 above.
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Old 01-15-2010, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
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Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Thanks Raelyn for participating.

I see verse 2 as believers since they were of the vine, but not bearing fruit. They were taken away. I see that as left behind.

We are made clean by the word and by abiding in Him, we shall bear much fruit. And those that do bear fruit, He shall purge so that we may bear more fruit.

John 15: John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

It is by abiding in Him we can live the christian life as well as serving Him in the ministry for we can do nothing without Him.

I can see how you saw verse 6 as an unbeliever, but then how could he be seen as cast forth and then withered when he had no life? So he must have had life in order for him to wither, and he must have been a part of the vine to be cast forth.

So when a believer defiles the temple of God, he, which had been bought with a price and sealed as His: shall be fitted to destruction to become vessels unto dishonour in God's House.

Romans 9: 11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth 12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 28For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 29And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. 30What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

All because of the promise of verse 33 above.
I will have to study more on this because I am not going to agree or disagree with you at the moment until I ask God..
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:19 PM
 
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John 15:6 is a reference to those who profess to be believers but never really were. In referring to the vine and the branches, Jesus was referring specifically to Judas who had just gone to betray Him. Athough Judas had been with Christ for 3 years, he had never been a believer. He had never placed his faith in Christ for salvation. By extension and principle Jesus was referring to all who profess to be believers but in reality are not. John 15:6 is not talking about a true believer being able to lose his salvation. What is in view here are those who while they may be followers of Christ, they never actually trusted Him-placed their faith in Him-believed in Him for salvation. These are those who are spoken of in Matthew 7:13-23.

In Matt. 7:21 it says, 'Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord, ' will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in Heaven.'

The will of the Father is for the unbeliever to believe in Christ. Compare Matt. 7:21 with John 6:28-29, 'Then they asked Him, ''What must we do to do the works God requires?'' Jesus answered, ''The work of God is this; to believe in the one who He has sent.''

Now in Matt. 7:22 ''Many will say to Me on that day, ''Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles.'' 23) ''And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.''

These were people who thought they were doing things for the Lord, but Jesus calls their deeds 'lawlessness.' Why? Because they never believed in Him for salvation. They were trying to impress Him with their efforts. Bad fruit. The unbeliever can only produce bad fruit from their relative human righteousness.

What does it say in Matt. 7:13? Enter by the narrow gate (the Gospel-faith in Christ), for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction (religion, works), and many are those who enter by it. 14) ''For the gate is narrow that leads to life (the Gospel, faith in Christ), and few are those who find it.

So false branches are distinquished from true branches. Professing believers are distinquished from true believers.

Now you may ask, how can an unbeliever prophesy, or cast out demons or perform miracles? The answer is 'through Satan' in the case of actual instances of these things, and in the case of fakery, well, you have a good example with the T.V. preachers who perform their phoney healing services. What did Jesus say? ''I NEVER knew you.'' He could only say that of unbelievers. Not to believers that were cast out because of bad fruit. That doesn't happen.

The Bible does not contradict itself. Verses such as John 4:14,6:35,10:29, Romans 8:1, 8:35-39 all speak of eternal security. The sealing of the Holy Spirit is a guarantee of eternal security.
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:22 PM
 
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Enow I more love and love your posts. Please add me as a friend at your pleasure. The strength of your scripture is amazing. You truly discern wisdom in your reading and are a credit to the church in Christ.
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Old 01-16-2010, 07:16 AM
 
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The Jesus is the vine,,,,Lord God is the nurturer,,,, branches that dry up are cut off and removed.... if the branch gives a lot of fruit than it is pruned to give me fruit,,,,,,,,, Jesus teaches us that we are cleaned through the word which Jesus has gave us ....... branches that are dry up and give no fruit may not mean the man is then unsaved, but it means that the man missed his calling and will have to study more of the Words of Jesus to get fruit... ...There are preachers who read the Bible multible times on their knees before they get fruit.... Abide in Jesus and Jesus in us ,,,, for we can not get fruit on our own ,,,, we must be connected to Jesus and he will bring his fruit by his hand we receive, not by our hand..... We do things for Jesus and not pray for a lead in the spirit the road will be rocky and crocodiles on our path that Jesus never got to clear for his work,,,, OR Pray and obey and the work Of Jesus Christ will be a breeze.
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:56 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Originally Posted by Raelyn28 View Post
I will have to study more on this because I am not going to agree or disagree with you at the moment until I ask God..
I understand. I have been known to make a mistake in reading His words which is why no one should be looking to me to follow Jesus because we are all to follow Jesus personally and therefore everything we share... we should take to Jesus Christ as He is the Good Shepherd as we serve Him as He enables us.

I am not against eternal security.

By His grace, I am merely showing how God wants us to be fruitful and if not, He will deal with those that are His but not abiding in Him.

As Jesus taught excommunication: so will He do. Paul saw excommunication as a way of handing those over to Satan as a destruction of the flesh so that they may be saved. Just as a man works of wood, stubble, and hay would be burned up, but he would be saved in that day of fire: as The Father chasten every child He receives, so will He scourge them so that they may be partakers of His holiness. That is why no believer living in sin, as a fornicator, will inherit the kingdom of God, the first fruit of the resurrection at the pre tribulationa rapture event, as a fornicator, but as a chastened child when they are left behind to go through the great tribulation and so is the call to depart from iniquity with His help to be ready.

If one sees how God addressed each of the seven churches in Revelation to be abiding in Him and be ready or else they be cut off to go through the great tribulation, then we can see the application of the vine.

What those that speak against eternal security do not understand is when Jesus is speaking from the view of being under the law to obtain righteousness as opposed to when He is speaking of looking to Him by faith for that righteousness. They need the Lord's help to understand His words.

As the Word of God stands and cannot void Himself: this is the promise of eternal security.

John 3:18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So it is on abiding in the vine that we be His disciples to be fruitful and that we may obtain the glory of being a vessel unto honour in God's House thanks to Jesus Christ as we can do nothing nor live as His without Him.

But the same can be for those that are left behind as Jesus will excommunicate those not found abiding in Him and not ready to the destruction of the flesh.

1 Corinthians 5:4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

When one reads Hebrews 12th chapter: then we see how the Father chastening every child He receives can result by leaving some left behind at the rapture event.

But all who believe in Him have been bought with a price and sealed as His and therefore Jesus will finish what He has started in them even for those left behind for He shall lose nothing: but not every believer that profess Him will be found ready for the first fruit of the resurrection.
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