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No I do not think univeralist know the Lord. They sure don't know His Word and what it teaches, I don't know if they all don't believe Jesus is God, but most of the ones here don't believe that. Based on what I have read on this forum about what they believe, I would have to sadly say most of them would not be entering Heaven. I hope I am wrong about that part.
With all due respect, those universalists I've known began their walk in mainstream Christianity (Baptist, Pentecostal, etc.) and grew out of it because their knowledge of Him and His word showed them more - not less - of His lordship over mankind.
The consequences of the universalism are the false teaching, that hell is not eternal, claiming that everyone gets in, giving people false hope, that is a lie, leading people astray, they will have to answer to God for that. (for the record I do not believe baptism is essential, important yes, essential no). No I do not think univeralist know the Lord. They sure don't know His Word and what it teaches, I don't know if they all don't believe Jesus is God, but most of the ones here don't believe that. Based on what I have read on this forum about what they believe, I would have to sadly say most of them would not be entering Heaven. I hope I am wrong about that part.
You are correct ILNC....universalism teaches a doctrine that denies Christ !! It is a doctrine that tickles the ears. Just like the Scripture warns us " These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots" (Jude 1:12)
I don't care how much one can quote the Bible, the lack the presence of the Holy Spirit in what the teaching of universalism proclaims is the evidence of the false teaching.
One who has a relationship and walks with the Lord (like yourself) can discern the spirit of this teaching .....
With all due respect, those universalists I've known began their walk in mainstream Christianity (Baptist, Pentecostal, etc.) and grew out of it because their knowledge of Him and His word showed them more - not less - of His lordship over mankind.
It is because they sought what doesn't exist in the kingdom.
The other side of that sword is "no flesh shall glory in His presence". (1 Cor 1:29)
So we must not only have "some" holiness, but completely (pure means "without mixture"). That's where Christians miss the message. There's a big need for a big bonfire.
And every one of us is headed for it, imo.
Only the ones that discount the diety of Christ.
I for one, am told by the scriptures, that I will never die, and I will never see the fire. You must have missed all those scriptures.
Why would anyone think that believing God doesn't exist at all is better than believing that He will save us all? Please, please, please won't somebody who believes this actually address explain it to me. If you think both beliefs are false, why is their greater danger or harm in believing that God will save people you don't think He will save than believing He isn't there to save any of us?
The question doesn't seem like rocket science to me, but in 10 pages, nobody has answered it!
Here is my direct answer.....
The teaching of universalism is more because it comes from the aspect of somebody stating it's the truth using God's Word, when it is not. Belief in Jesus and his death as payment for sin (on the subjective level) in this lifetime, is the only acceptable formula. You will not enter heaven if belief during a person's lifetime is not present. Universalism offers a path to enter heaven that doesn't require belief on the subjective level during a person's lifetime.
"He that believes not will be damned".........
Is it possible for a Christian who professes as his Savior and Triune God (on the subjective level) believe in universalism and enter heaven.........yes
Is it possible for the unbeliever not believe Jesus as described above (on the subjective level), trust universalism and enter heaven....... absolutely no
Moderator cut: insulting
Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-22-2010 at 09:58 AM..
Reason: insults are not allowed as they cause flame wars
With all due respect, those universalists I've known began their walk in mainstream Christianity (Baptist, Pentecostal, etc.) and grew out of it because their knowledge of Him and His word showed them more - not less - of His lordship over mankind.
Sorry.....but it is called gradually falling from grace !! It doesn't happen over night....it is a gradual process.
No believer grows out of grace....but deeper!
And the Holy Spirit will not lead one away from the Lord Jesus into another teaching that is beyond the written word....
I don't think so--not when we examine what other parts of Scripture have to say about the matter. If all you do is refer to Jesus' earthly ministry, then you will certainly appear to be right. This can clearly be shown as wrong, though, when we consider more of what God has to say.
When Christ was on his mission of mercy to humanity, he did indeed have contact with sinners. This, however, was during a time when he came as Savior, not as Judge, as he himself said:
"If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world." (John 12:47)
And yet he describes himself after his ministry on earth as judge on the last day:
"But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. ... Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;..." Matthew 25:31-33, 41)
Matthew 25:41(Weymouth New Testament)
"Then will He say to those at His left, "'Begone from me, with the curse resting upon you, into the Fire of the Ages, which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels.
1 Cor 3:15
If any one's work is burnt up, he will suffer the loss of it; yet he will himself be rescued, but only, as it were, by passing through the fire.
Aionios does not mean eternal, it is the adjective form of the word aion, from whence the English word eon is derived, which means age. Aionios means pertaining to the ages, and represents a quality and not a quantity.
Those who are do not know Christ will have to pass through the fire of the ages and will be saved thereby.
Quote:
Clearly the Lord describes himself here as the Judge who will condemn sinners to eternal fire. So we have Christ as meek, gentle Savior reaching out to sinners, and then we have Christ as stern, unrelenting Judge towards sinners. What are we to make of this? Well, for one thing, God has various attributes. He is not only a God of love and mercy, but also of holiness, wrath and justice.
And we must not forget this potent warning:
"[W]ithout holiness no one will see the Lord."(Hebrews 12:14)
There is no such thing as Christ or God being unrelenting ... Will the wrath of Gods fiery judgments come upon the wicked and unbelieving? Indeed ... Will it last for ever? Of course not ...
Isaiah 57:16-19
For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart.
I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners.
I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.
Psalm 30:5
For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.
Psa 136:2
O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.
The purpose of Gods judgments is to correct the wicked and teach righteousness ...
Isa 26:9
With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 01-19-2010 at 05:26 PM..
Sorry.....but it is called gradually falling from grace !! It doesn't happen over night....it is a gradual process.
No believer grows out of grace....but deeper!
And the Holy Spirit will not lead one away from the Lord Jesus into another teaching that is beyond the written word....
Good point!
That is why we are told not to tolerate false teaching because Paul compared it to as gangrene is to the body. False teaching can destroy the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:16-18
Another analogy Paul made about false teaching was how "A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough." Galatians 5:9
Sorry.....but it is called gradually falling from grace !! It doesn't happen over night....it is a gradual process.
No believer grows out of grace....but deeper!
And the Holy Spirit will not lead one away from the Lord Jesus into another teaching that is beyond the written word....
You contradict yourself ...
Those who are fallen from grace are those who seek to be justified by the law ... (Gal 5:4)
However, we who believe in the restitution of all things or universal reconciliation(apokatastasis) have not fallen from grace, we have learned what grace truly is ... We are believers in the complete victory of Christ over sin and death and ALL the works of the devil. We are believers in the complete victory of Christ to accomplish gods desire, which is to save all men and bring them to a knowledge of the truth.
Sorry.....but it is called gradually falling from grace !! It doesn't happen over night....it is a gradual process.
No believer grows out of grace....but deeper!
And the Holy Spirit will not lead one away from the Lord Jesus into another teaching that is beyond the written word....
The belief is from the meat of the Word, not from just skimming the milk.
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