Athiesm or Universalism (Moses, prophet, atheists, Adam)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes twin is correct, universalism is NOT Biblical. Sure they believe in a little punishment for sin, but in end everyone gets in........NOT.
What is your point here... Christ was punished on the cross for all sin! Or do you think Christ only died for your sin? Christ took away your sins on the cross, before you were even alive to commit them! Why should He not have already covered others sins as well?
I studied Universalism, and was very interested in learning about the beliefs, and open to it . . . .I've got alot of atheist relatives . . .
so it's not that I don't want it to be true . . there are sincere people who look at Universalism and it's beliefs, eager and open for it to line up with God's Word, the Message of Jesus, the reason for the Cross . . etc., etc. . . and for me . . . I didn't see truth in it . . . . so some want it to be true . . . . and found out that the fence posts, unfortunately, did not line up . . .peace, Lifesigns64
Just curious, what was the fence posts that didn't line up?
Man's free will got in the way? (ie. some people will always reject Christ)
Lifesign i appreciate your comment . Though i commend you for studying , can i ask you one question , did you study to become a christian ?
God opened my heart to believe in him* and did the very same thing when i first came across UR , i had no doubt in my heart after hearing the UR message that it was of God , infact he opened my heart to it the moment i first heard it and since that day i see nothing but God's plan for universal reconciliation not only in the scriptures but in all things.
Jesus came to his own and his own received him not i have no doubt whatsoever those who did not receive him were well versed in the scripture and studied intently.
*Funnily enough i was reading the bible and "the Cross and the switchblade" when he opened my heart to believe in him.
Thats funny ... I saw the movie "the cross and the switchblade" when i was 9 years old ... I watched it at a church festival night in buffalo New York at the church my father pastored. It had a big effect on me.
Also the lord lead me to the doctrine of Universal Reconciliation. I had never heard of it really until then and if i had i would have confused it as unitarianism myself. My spirit just began to reject the whole doctrine of Eternal Torment. I couldn't help it. For so long i had believed in it without much questioning it. Through our family studies i had come to the point that i no longer believed that everyone who doesn't believe in Christ we going to be damned. But after some years the whole doctrine of damnation just started throwing everything off that i was feeling in the spirit. I was really struggling with the contradictions that were facing me because of that particular doctrine. I would pray and cry. I was really in allot of pain because i couldnt understand it and the vanity was really eating at my soul. Everywhere i looked in the faces of the people I saw everyday i could only see their potential eternal suffering, not to mention the friends and family i have had that have died, and i couldn't reconcile the idea of their suffering and my joy. I didnt have any joy, just fear for the ones i loved as well as myself, and everyone in the world around me. After many months of this i came across an e-book of Andrew Jukes and it was as if something just clicked inside me. I didnt doubt it at all. OF course i didn't just blindly accept it but i began to study everything i could get my hands on about Universal Reconciliation and the more i looked into the more sense it made and the more i became certain of its truth, at least as far as my heart and conscience were concerned. It all just made so much sense, i couldnt even believe how i had missed it for so long. I realized in=t was because of only a few mistranslated words that something so obvious was pushed beneath the surface of the the bibles i had always read without questioning the influences that played on their translations all the way back to the third century. Everything, including the history of the church, just suddenly made sense. It has been a truly eye opening experience. One that has changed me and my faith more a than anything since I first truly came to understand Christ and his wok ion the cross when i was just a child, about the time i was 9 years old.
To come full circle it was about the time i saw that movie the Cross and the switchblade that i came to understand the work of Christ. I think that David Wilkerson could actually benefit quite allot from understanding the doctrine of Reconciliation.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 01-21-2010 at 09:16 PM..
"Universalim takes the entire reason why Christ died away"
Why on earth do you keep repeating this lie? This has been discussed and explained many times. Its like you just don't want to listen and keep repeating the same old lies.
Christ is the reason why Universal Salvation is possible! The reason Christ died is to save the world! Christ died for the world, is the savior of the world, and is the atoning sacrifice for all sins of the world! He takes away the sin of the world, thus there will be no sin left anywhere!
How hard is this to understand?
And why can't you understand the objective and subjective justification in John 3:16?
Subjective proof:
Romans 10:10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
An unbeliever doesn't have\do Romans 10:10 by definition .
The truth is that you will not be saved while rejecting Romans 10:10.
No it doesn't. People sin. For sin there is punishment. We can be punished for our sins, and be forced to endure a long period of intense suffering, or we can acknowledge that Jesus Christ already bore that punishment for us, thereby making it possible for us to return to God's presence without having to be punished for our own sins.
Romans 10:10.....
Unbelievers don't do this. Therefore they reject what was offered to them and by their choice will not be saved.
And by the way, the other lie is one will escape that long period of intense suffering...it's eternal.
Matthew 25:46
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
Phl 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Bingo: Lets put it all together for twin.spin:
Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved
1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:17 " 'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Wow! Scripture tells us God will pour out His spirit on all people. Everyone will confess Jesus because they will all have the holy spirit poured out on them, and they will all be saved! Can you believe scripture says this so clearly?
Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved
1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
Quote:
Acts 2:17 " 'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Wow! Scripture tells us God will pour out His spirit on all people. Everyone will confess Jesus because they will all have the holy spirit poured out on them, and they will all be saved! Can you believe scripture says this so clearly?
Last Days--This phrase refers to the present era of redemptive history from the first coming of Christ (Heb 1:2; I Peter 1:20, I John 2:18) to His return.
All Mankind-- This indicates all people will recieve the Holy Spirit because everyone who enters the Mellennial kingdom will be redeemed ( Mt: 24-29, 25:26; Rev 20: 4-6.)
Thats funny ... I saw the movie "the cross and the switchblade" when i was 9 years old ... I watched it at a church festival night in buffalo New York at the church my father pastored. It had a big effect on me.
Also the lord lead me to the doctrine of Universal Reconciliation. I had never heard of it really until then and if i had i would have confused it as unitarianism myself. My spirit just began to reject the whole doctrine of Eternal Torment. I couldn't help it. For so long i had believed in it without much questioning it. Through our family studies i had come to the point that i no longer believed that everyone who doesn't believe in Christ we going to be damned. But after some years the whole doctrine of damnation just started throwing everything off that i was feeling in the spirit. I was really struggling with the contradictions that were facing me because of that particular doctrine. I would pray and cry. I was really in allot of pain because i couldnt understand it and the vanity was really eating at my soul. Everywhere i looked in the faces of the people I saw everyday i could only see their potential eternal suffering, not to mention the friends and family i have had that have died, and i couldn't reconcile the idea of their suffering and my joy. I didnt have any joy, just fear for the ones i loved as well as myself, and everyone in the world around me. After many months of this i came across an e-book of Andrew Jukes and it was as if something just clicked inside me. I didnt doubt it at all. OF course i didn't just blindly accept it but i began to study everything i could get my hands on about Universal Reconciliation and the more i looked into the more sense it made and the more i became certain of its truth, at least as far as my heart and conscience were concerned. It all just made so much sense, i couldnt even believe how i had missed it for so long. I realized in=t was because of only a few mistranslated words that something so obvious was pushed beneath the surface of the the bibles i had always read without questioning the influences that played on their translations all the way back to the third century. Everything, including the history of the church, just suddenly made sense. It has been a truly eye opening experience. One that has changed me and my faith more a than anything since I first truly came to understand Christ and his wok ion the cross when i was just a child, about the time i was 9 years old.
To come full circle it was about the time i saw that movie the Cross and the switchblade that i came to understand the work of Christ. I think that David Wilkerson could actually benefit quite allot from understanding the doctrine of Reconciliation.
Hey Ironmaw thanks for shaing that. I agree with your comment about David Wilkerson to .
It was Nicky Cruz's reaction to DW saying to him "if you cut me in a thousand pieces every piece would say i love you" , that did it for me , only the love of God could break a man like that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
