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*shifts in his chair* Well, I am guessing that is your point? The 'credit' is his. If he had not offered us a way out of our 'debts'...there would be no way. I never meant to indicate we deserve 'credit' for our salvation.
(Didn't mean to make you squirm )
I don't believe He stopped at Calvary - I believe His word is being fulfilled today, as He is drawing men to Himself.
(The Greek word for "draw" literally means to "drag".)
I don't believe He stopped at Calvary - I believe His word is being fulfilled today, as He is drawing men to Himself.
(The Greek word for "draw" literally means to "drag".)
Words are as much of a curse as a blessing to me...*chuckle* The idea that you had interpreted me as believeing we are due 'credit' or glory in the 'Plan' made me pout... In many ways, I am my own worst enemy
Because as a stoned and drunk teenager, I had a Voice that spoke to me about His love while I was in no state to argue.
That Voice never stopped telling me - what's your story?
Mine was after I left an abusive and controlling husband. After he broke my ribs and left bruises all over my body, I looked for God, He didn't find me. When the ex walked out the door, I was already reading the bible. I cried my eyes out because he took everything but the house(His neame was not on the purchase of it). I had a decent job but I made very little money. I begged for God to show me His truth and He did. I spent one day going from the bible to a web site I actually stumbled on. God led me to that site and I read it and it answered every question I ever posed to the ministers who claimed that the bible is God's word.
Mine was after I left an abusive and controlling husband. After he broke my ribs and left bruises all over my body, I looked for God, He didn't find me. When the ex walked out the door, I was already reading the bible. I cried my eyes out because he took everything but the house(His neame was not on the purchase of it). I had a decent job but I made very little money. I begged for God to show me His truth and He did. I spent one day going from the bible to a web site I actually stumbled on. God led me to that site and I read it and it answered every question I ever posed to the ministers who claimed that the bible is God's word.
I looked for God and He met me halfway.
I am sorry that this happened to you, but with utmost respect I submit to you that anything we go through that drives us to Him is worth it. Consider this, and again I do not ever mean to belittle or degrade the experience(s) you suffered, but:
Remember how God dealt with the children of Israel - did He not use hardship and slavery to prepare their hearts? Shouldn't we look with open hearts to consider when things happen that God is behind things in our lives?
In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (1 Thes 5:18) What? That we are always thankful? Absolutely! But also, that this thing is not permanent, but will come to pass for our preparation of His coming - not someday - but here, now, where we are.
Again, I'm sorry for any heartache - but I want to believe that in the efficiency of His kingdom, nothing is wasted.
Mine was after I left an abusive and controlling husband. After he broke my ribs and left bruises all over my body, I looked for God, He didn't find me. When the ex walked out the door, I was already reading the bible. I cried my eyes out because he took everything but the house(His neame was not on the purchase of it). I had a decent job but I made very little money. I begged for God to show me His truth and He did. I spent one day going from the bible to a web site I actually stumbled on. God led me to that site and I read it and it answered every question I ever posed to the ministers who claimed that the bible is God's word.
I looked for God and He met me halfway.
I understand how you believe that you looked for God ... But i believe that what you do not understand is that God put you in the position where you would finally turn to him. I believe that if he had not been working in your life through the experiences you were having that you would not have turned.
The scriptures are clear that it is god that finds us, and he that chooses us and works within us to do his will. Were the spirit not working in your life to prepare your heart and mind to receive the things of the spirit of god, and were the spirit of God to have allowed you to continue in your carnal state of mind and not have compelled you through external stimulation, steering your thoughts and feelings in such a way as to become receptive to his influence, then you would not have been able to even comprehend the value of the truth contained within the scriptures themselves but would have concluded them as being foolishness as the carnal nature does naturally consider the things of the spirit of God to be foolish.
I hate to use a tired analogy, but think of the story of the footsteps in the sand. All the times you have seen the footsteps of god next to yours in life, that was when you were strong enough because of his presence to walk on your own. Anytime you think that you do not see his footsteps next to yours what you are actually seeing is his footsteps alone and not your own, because he is in truth carrying you through those moments because you do not have the strength at that time to walk on your own. Everything we think we do that is good or Godly, is actually god working within us to do them. We can take no glory for those things in truth. Our most righteous works done outside of the power of God are as dirty rags.
Many people cannot understand this, and so think more highly of themselves then they ought to. That is why some people tend to look down their noses at others who apparently are still lost in the world and under the bondage of sin. Were it not for the work of God in our own lives, we would all be in the same position as the rest of the unbelieving world.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 01-22-2010 at 06:00 PM..
I understand how you believe that you looked for God ... But i believe that what you do not understand is that God put you in the position where you would finally turn to him. I believe that if he had not been working in your life through the experiences you were having that you would not have turned.
...
Ewww...I cannot find one part of me that would agree with this thought of yours...
The idea that G-d might torment someone in today's New Testament world goes against what I believe Jesus preached...
Ewww...I cannot find one part of me that would agree with this thought of yours...
The idea that G-d might torment someone in today's New Testament world goes against what I believe Jesus preached...
But i don't believe in eternal torment. I believe in universal reconciliation and the eventual restitution of all things to harmony with God in the fullness of times .
But i don't believe in eternal torment. I believe in universal reconciliation and the eventual restitution of all things to harmony with God in the fullness of times .
I never said you did believe in 'eternal torment' - but to introduce the thought that G-d would use spousal abuse to bring reverand to Him is so wrong in my thoughts. Did I misunderstand what you were meaning to say to her?
I am sorry that this happened to you, but with utmost respect I submit to you that anything we go through that drives us to Him is worth it. Consider this, and again I do not ever mean to belittle or degrade the experience(s) you suffered, but:
Remember how God dealt with the children of Israel - did He not use hardship and slavery to prepare their hearts? Shouldn't we look with open hearts to consider when things happen that God is behind things in our lives?
In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. (1 Thes 5:18) What? That we are always thankful? Absolutely! But also, that this thing is not permanent, but will come to pass for our preparation of His coming - not someday - but here, now, where we are.
Again, I'm sorry for any heartache - but I want to believe that in the efficiency of His kingdom, nothing is wasted.
The thought that G-d would have lead her ex. to treat her as he did so that she would turn to Him...it doesn't work for me.
The thought that G-d would have lead her ex. to treat her as he did so that she would turn to Him...it doesn't work for me.
It's the other way around.
She made the choice to be in that relationship that lead her to Him.
He foresaw it, and accepted it, and allowed it, for His glory.
But there is still much work to be done with her.
As there is with all of us who are giving Him glory.
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