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Nope he pursues us or gives us the opportunity. It doesn't mean that we take him up on that. Love involves freewill and Love is not Love when it is forced, coerced or even set up. This is commom sense and Biblical.
Is allowing your child to play in the streets true love because you are allowing your child to do whatever he or she wants even though you know that it will eventually destroy your child in the end?
Well I would probably venture to say that you were a legalistic Christian. Because I am seeing a very big swing on this forum in unbalanced thinking and beliefs..
The bible says that none will be without excuse, therefore God will have presented himself to everyone.. But not everyone will chose or even wants God..
Raelyn, say I owed someone a lot of money, and that person came to me and said "pay up" but I didn't have the money and told them to have mercy on me because I don't have the funds and they did. So then I go out and beat up on those that owe me money.
Would you call that a sin when I beat the others that owed me? If so, how long should this sinner be tormented for that?
Wrong again.. Salvation is the "Pearl of Great Price".... I have the legitimate one (salvation) and His Kingdom is inside of me.
And this thread is not about Catholisism or anything other than "I was once a universalist". Your comment belongs on another thread...perhaps in another forum.
Wrong again. Jesus was the One who gave all He had to get the Pearl of Great Price which was Israel.
I never said this thread was about Catholicism. Was it you that brought up the point that Universalists don't agree on doctrinal issues? So I brought it right back at you by showing Christians don't agree on doctrinal issues as well such as Catholics don't agree with Protestants and Protestants don't agree with themselves and Catholics don't agree with themeslelves so your point is a moot point.
Nope he pursues us or gives us the opportunity. It doesn't mean that we take him up on that. Love involves freewill and Love is not Love when it is forced, coerced or even set up. This is commom sense and Biblical.
Yes he pursues and he also seeks and finds us.
God never forced is love he demonstrated it .
It's the fact that He loved me at my worst that won me over, so his love in essence conquered me.
I take it you have never known the irresistible love of God , if he opened your eyes to it you would certainly not be able to resist it .
The goodness and kindness of God led and caused us to repent
knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? Romans 2 verse 4
Nope he pursues us or gives us the opportunity. It doesn't mean that we take him up on that. Love involves freewill and Love is not Love when it is forced, coerced or even set up. This is commom sense and Biblical.
wow, where did that come from......you read that? from my post....oh my....lol. no.....I'm not a legalist my friend......I've known many though......you might aswell.
Raelyn, say I owed someone a lot of money, and that person came to me and said "pay up" but I didn't have the money and told them to have mercy on me because I don't have the funds and they did. So then I go out and beat up on those that owe me money.
Would you call that a sin when I beat the others that owed me? If so, how long should this sinner be tormented for that?
What you universalists and for that matter the Calvanists fail to understand is that God wants and requires man to use his volition to choose for or against God. It is not a matter of man's free will being stronger than God's sovereignty.
Unbelievers are not punished in the lake of fire because of their sins. Jesus Christ paid the penalty for all sins in the human race. Unbelievers spend eternity in the lake of fire for one reason. Since they refused to use their volition to accept God's offer of salvation through faith in Christ, as God requires, God never imputed His perfect righteousness to them and therefore there is no basis for a relationship with them.
God's perfect righteousness, His perfect character, His essence, cannot have a relationship with man's relative and imperfect righteousness.
Isa. 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean. And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
Romans 5:1 Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand...'
At the Great White Throne judgment, the unbelivers sins will never be mentioned because, again, their sins were already paid for. The basis for the unbelievers sentence to the lake of fire is his works. His relative human righteousness. Revelation 20:11-15.
Bringing up the argument of being punished for your sins is invalid. Sin is not the issue. The issue is that the unbeliever doesn't have a righteousness that can have a relationship with God because He rejected God's offer of the imputation of His righteousness. God made the offer and the unbeliever rejected the offer.
God loves His essence, His righteousness, His holiness, above all else. And He will not, He can not compromise His holiness in order to have a relationship with those who have rejected the one way that God could provide salvation for them that would not compromise His perfection.
Last edited by Michael Way; 01-22-2010 at 07:13 PM..
What you universalists and for that matter the Calvanists fail to understand is that God wants and requires man to use his volition to choose for or against God. It is not a matter of man's free will being stronger than God's sovereignty.
Unbelievers are not punished in the lake of fire because of their sins. Jesus Christ paid the penalty for all sins in the human race. Unbelievers spend eternity in the lake of fire for one reason. Since they refused to use their volition to accept God's offer of salvation through faith in Christ, as God requires, God never imputed His perfect righteousness to them and therefore there is no basis for a relationship with them.
God's perfect righteousness, His perfect character, His essence, cannot have a relationship with man's relative and imperfect righteousness.
Isa. 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean. And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
Romans 5:1 Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand...'
At the Great White Throne judgment, the unbelivers sins will never be mentioned because, again, their sins were already paid for. The basis for the unbelievers sentence to the lake of fire is his works. His relative human righteousness. Revelation 20:11-15.
Bringing up the argument of being punished for your sins is invalid. Sin is not the issue. The issue is that the unbeliever doesn't have a righteousness that can have a relationship with God because He rejected God's offer of the imputation of His righteousness. God made the offer and the unbeliever rejected the offer.
God loves His essence, His righteousness, His holiness, above all else. And He will not, He can not compromise His holiness in order to have a relationship with those who have rejected the one way that God could provide salvation for them that would not compromise His perfection.
Thank you for the elaboration. I have things at home to take care of so I cannot spend much time here tonight.. I appreciate you covering my back brother Mike..
Raelyn, say I owed someone a lot of money, and that person came to me and said "pay up" but I didn't have the money and told them to have mercy on me because I don't have the funds and they did. So then I go out and beat up on those that owe me money.
Would you call that a sin when I beat the others that owed me? If so, how long should this sinner be tormented for that?
I would say that you commited a sin and truthfully your consequence could very well be death...because your debtor could come back and kill you.
God is not mocked for whatever a man sows he shall reap.
Galatians 6:7
7Do not be deceived and deluded and misled; God will not allow Himself to be sneered at (scorned, disdained, or mocked [a]by mere pretensions or professions, or by His precepts being set aside.) [He inevitably deludes himself who attempts to delude God.] For whatever a man sows, that and [b]that only is what he will reap.
Wrong again. Jesus was the One who gave all He had to get the Pearl of Great Price which was Israel.
I never said this thread was about Catholicism. Was it you that brought up the point that Universalists don't agree on doctrinal issues? So I brought it right back at you by showing Christians don't agree on doctrinal issues as well such as Catholics don't agree with Protestants and Protestants don't agree with themselves and Catholics don't agree with themeslelves so your point is a moot point.
I bet you don't even know how you got saved.
Wrong the Pearl of great price is a parable about the Kingdom of God and that is about Salvation.
Matthew 13 The Parables of the Hidden Treasure and the Pearl
44"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field. 45"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. 46When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it.
Wrong again. Jesus was the One who gave all He had to get the Pearl of Great Price which was Israel.
I never said this thread was about Catholicism. Was it you that brought up the point that Universalists don't agree on doctrinal issues? So I brought it right back at you by showing Christians don't agree on doctrinal issues as well such as Catholics don't agree with Protestants and Protestants don't agree with themselves and Catholics don't agree with themeslelves so your point is a moot point.
I bet you don't even know how you got saved.
Wrong again, I know the exact day and year that I was saved and remember it as if it happened yesterday.
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