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that chapter says when the wicked are shown grace they do not learn, but when Gods judgments are in the earth they shall learn righteousness ... Anyone reading that Chapter can see it ..
So you are going to bank one verse to prove what?
Verse 9 is about Israel, the judgement against them, and that specific judgement results.
Verse 10 is about the wicked, which Wicked?
The Jewish Wicked...none other.
have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
What is this referring to?
This is the judgement of Jerusalem in 70 AD, and precisely because of that event, the world, the partition between Jew and Gentile, has been dismantled. The world will learn righteousness.
LORD, [when] thy hand is lifted up, they will not see: [but] they shall see, and be ashamed for [their] envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them.
Devour who? Enemies are who?
Devour the wicked Jews. The enemies are the Pagans.
Hosea 5:15 I will go [and] return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
This is "theophanies," manifestations of the majesty and glory of God in judgment. They manifested God's sovereignty and justice - Isaiah 26:9 - The fulfillment of His predictions to "come" showed Him to be the true God - Isaiah 41:21.
Isaiah 26 is a prophecy typologically pointing towards physical Israel in regards to the Assyrian and Babylonian assaults, and spiritually pointing towards the regathering of the righteous under Jesus Christ.
You folks are way out of context....repetitively!
Chapter 26 of Isaiah is a song of hope for the righteous, not the wicked.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 01-29-2010 at 06:04 PM..
Verse 9 is about Israel, the judgement against them, and that specific judgement results.
Verse 10 is about the wicked, which Wicked?
The Jewish Wicked...none other.
have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
What is this referring to?
This is the judgement of Jerusalem in 70 AD, and precisely because of that event, the world, the partition between Jew and Gentile, has been dismantled. The world will learn righteousness.
LORD, [when] thy hand is lifted up, they will not see: [but] they shall see, and be ashamed for [their] envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them.
Devour who? Enemies are who?
Devour the wicked Jews. The enemies are the Pagans.
Hosea 5:15 I will go [and] return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
This is "theophanies," manifestations of the majesty and glory of God in judgment. They manifested God's sovereignty and justice - Isaiah 26:9 - The fulfillment of His predictions to "come" showed Him to be the true God - Isaiah 41:21.
Isaiah 26 is a prophecy typologically pointing towards physical Israel in regards to the Assyrian and Babylonian assaults, and spiritually pointing towards the regathering of the righteous under Jesus Christ.
You folks are way out of context....repetitively!
Chapter 26 of Isaiah is a song of hope for the righteous, not the wicked.
I disagree with your exegesis and your hermeneutic concerning all these things ... But you already know that.
Gods will judge the world the same regardless of nationality or creed. All men's works will be revealed by the fires of gods judgments. First the Jew then the Gentile ... The judgment that did take place on Israel is 70 AD was not final, and the world did not learn righteousness after that as the world is every bit as unrighteous now, if not even more unrighteous, than it was back then.
I disagree with your exegesis and your hermeneutic concerning all these things ... But you already know that.
Yes...LOL
Quote:
Gods will judge the world the same regardless of nationality or creed. All men's works will be revealed by the fires of gods judgments. First the Jew then the Gentile ... The judgment that did take place on Israel is 70 AD was not final, and the world did not learn righteousness after that as the world is every bit as unrighteous now, if not even more unrighteous, than it was back then.
Romans 2:6-11
Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.
Romans 2:6-11
Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.
This is pertaining to the Resurrection of the dead, which in many scriptures, is perfectly aligned with the destruction of the temple.
Well, I'm sure Sven could answer you, but if you had read my OP fully, you would see I'm planning on covering many hundreds of verses in this thread. No where have I said that belief, repentance, confession, faith, etc mean nothing. That is your belief, not mine (nor Sven's I believe). Don't jump the gun, I will get to them.
I agree this passage of scripture is obviously pertaining to the resurrection of the dead and the judgment of works. I do not agree that the destruction of the temple in 70 AD was the resurrection of the dead.
I agree this passage of scripture is obviously pertaining to the resurrection of the dead and the judgment of works. I do not agree that the destruction of the temple in 70 AD was the resurrection of the dead.
This very scripture, is dealing solely with the symbolic judgments against Israel and the re-gathering of of the Jewish people both physically and/or spiritually into the kingdom age. First with Assyria, secondly with Babylon, and finally in Christ. It is pointing toward, with acute accuracy into Christ's kingdom, the final kingdom age. Any commentary you read regarding Isaiah 29 reveals this monumentally. To deny this, is to deny the truth that is evident in this very scripture, and is a doctrine that becomes naught.
This very scripture, is dealing solely with the symbolic judgments against Israel and the re-gathering of of the Jewish people both physically and/or spiritually into the kingdom age. First with Assyria, secondly with Babylon, and finally in Christ. It is pointing toward, with acute accuracy into Christ's kingdom, the final kingdom age. Any commentary you read regarding Isaiah 29 reveals this monumentally. To deny this, is to deny the truth that is evident in this very scripture, and is a doctrine that becomes naught.
I hope you realize this.
I realize that that is what you believe ... I believe in a literal resurrection of the dead, even as Christ literally resurrected from the dead.
I realize that that is what you believe ... I believe in a literal resurrection of the dead, even as Christ literally resurrected from the dead.
So, you believe that no one goes to Heaven yet?
What of this?
Romans 13:11-12 (NKJV) And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for NOW OUR SALVATION IS NEARER than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.
He equates their salvation with the "day" which was at hand, referring to the day of the Lord. "Knowing the time" is the Greek word kairos, it means: "season, a special critical strategic period of time." It is used of a season of great importance in redemptive history. The completion of redemptive history was at hand, and with it would come salvation.
According to the theory you present, we are not complete in our salvation?
Or this:
Hebrews 9:8-10 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that THE WAY INTO THE HOLIEST OF ALL WAS NOT YET MADE MANIFEST WHILE THE FIRST TABERNACLE WAS STILL STANDING. 9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service PERFECT in regard to the conscience; 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
Under the Old Covenant, they were never made perfect. And because they were not perfect, they could not enter God's presence. The incompleteness of what they had is seen in the fact that even though they had eternal life, they still needed to be raised up at the last day.
If we haven't had that last day, the resurrection, then we CANNOT enter the Holy of Holies with Christ.
Romans 13:11-12 (NKJV) And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for NOW OUR SALVATION IS NEARER than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.
He equates their salvation with the "day" which was at hand, referring to the day of the Lord. "Knowing the time" is the Greek word kairos, it means: "season, a special critical strategic period of time." It is used of a season of great importance in redemptive history. The completion of redemptive history was at hand, and with it would come salvation.
According to the theory you present, we are not complete in our salvation?
Or this:
Hebrews 9:8-10 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that THE WAY INTO THE HOLIEST OF ALL WAS NOT YET MADE MANIFEST WHILE THE FIRST TABERNACLE WAS STILL STANDING. 9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service PERFECT in regard to the conscience; 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
Under the Old Covenant, they were never made perfect. And because they were not perfect, they could not enter God's presence. The incompleteness of what they had is seen in the fact that even though they had eternal life, they still needed to be raised up at the last day.
If we haven't had that last day, the resurrection, then we CANNOT enter the Holy of Holies with Christ.
One day with God is as one thousand years with man. Paul and the other disciples thought that the return of Christ and the resurrection were eminent according to man at their own time ... According to god it was, and i believe it is closer than ever now. There are many things that have not yet occurred and the full preterist hermeneutic in my opinion is less than flimsy in the way it attempts to explains that all things concerning prophecy and Gods purpose in creation has occurred already in the past.
Our salvation is not complete even as the salvation of the apostles was not yet complete in the new testament. Now we wait through faith on the hope of righteousness to come(Gal 5:5), just as they did then. Christ has already accomplished the saving work, but until death and every work of the devil is destroyed throughout all things, there is yet many things to be accomplished.
Honestly Sciotamicks, if you version of Christianity and your prphetic hermeneutic had been the way things were explained to me all my life i imagine i probably wouldn't be christian right now. In my opinion your hermeneutic(full preterism) makes God out to be a liar and a flake. Much like i believe ET makes him out to be a monster and a despot ...
Selah ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 01-30-2010 at 12:34 PM..
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