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Old 02-02-2010, 05:18 AM
Status: "ask why me ... rather than not why not them" (set 23 days ago)
 
9,395 posts, read 4,866,444 times
Reputation: 1022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I asked you to provide the scripture that shows the wicked after they are judged thrown in the Lake of Fire and then brought into the Kingdom Of Heaven. You have shown me nothing from scriputure that shows what I am asking for, but yet I have scripture that says and shows what I believe.
Miss shawn,
It's obvious why they don't, Jesus says otherwise.

John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

 
Old 02-02-2010, 08:15 AM
 
22,849 posts, read 10,714,584 times
Reputation: 3850
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
So Jesus who is the exact representation of God's being (hebrews 1 verse 3)had a problem with James of John the sons of thunder (sons of fundamentalists at that time i reckon) wanting to call fire down from heaven on those who were rejecting Jesus , were rebuked and told they did not know what manner of spirit they were of and tat he came to save life not destroy it,then this very same Jesus has an about turn in nature and character and has no problem with throwing unbelievers in a lake of fire who have rejected him
The ET believers are NOT thinking or reasoning, pcamps . . . they are responding with unreasoning belief . . . (thinking that they are following God's word to reject the "wisdom of man") . . . when in fact they are believing the corrupted "wisdom of our ancestors" (their primitive interpreters of doctrine) . . . over the clear and unambiguous evidence of Jesus Himself. The OT corruptions are alive and well and very strong . . . they link with our primitive instincts because they were created by primitive savages who feared their God. Many who still do fear their God relate at a very primal level.
 
Old 02-02-2010, 08:50 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,577,650 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
So Jesus who is the exact representation of God's being (hebrews 1 verse 3)had a problem with James of John the sons of thunder (sons of fundamentalists at that time i reckon) wanting to call fire down from heaven on those who were rejecting Jesus , were rebuked and told they did not know what manner of spirit they were of and tat he came to save life not destroy it,then this very same Jesus has an about turn in nature and character and has no problem with throwing unbelievers in a lake of fire who have rejected him
I didn't ask for a question and not going around in circles with you Pcamps. I asked for scripture.
 
Old 02-02-2010, 09:33 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,577,650 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Miss shawn,
It's obvious why they don't, Jesus says otherwise.

John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.
Yes, I know and understand this. But they claim to believe in what the bible never taught and what Jesus never taught, so I want to see it in scripture. I haven't received it yet.
 
Old 02-02-2010, 12:16 PM
 
Location: RI
18,950 posts, read 8,988,697 times
Reputation: 1331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I didn't ask for a question and not going around in circles with you Pcamps. I asked for scripture.
Well do you not find it quite odd that the same Jesus who said to James and John "you know not what spirit you are off",when they wanted to call fire down from heaven to consume those who rejected the message is the same Jesus casting unbelievers in a lake of fire that burns eternally ? .
 
Old 02-02-2010, 03:42 PM
 
10 posts, read 8,265 times
Reputation: 20
Regardless of whether everyone goes to Heaven or not, one thing is for sure: if there is a Hell, there can be no Heaven for anyone!

I've actually written an entire book on this topic--Hell? No! Why You Can Be Certain There's No Such Place As Hell, (for anyone interested, you can get a free ecopy of Did Jesus Believe in Hell?, one of the most compelling chapters in my book at www.thereisnohell.com), but if I may, I'd like to share with you one of the many points I make in it to explain why.

Let's say you end up in Heaven trying to sing endless praises to a God who is, simultaneously, torturing billions of others. Unless you are given a de facto lobotomy (in which case, YOU would no longer be YOU, so you might as well have not had a soul to begin with), you would have to begin wondering, "When am I next?" and the joy of Heaven would be lost, replaced by gloom and foreboding! Why? Because you could never rely on a God who is so mean to be honest about making any exceptions.

After all, which is more difficult? For God to actively cause so much immense pain, for so many, for so long, or to go back on whatever promises he made to a few others that he would not put them in Hell too at some point?

It would be like accepting an invitation to live as a guest with one of these maniacal men we've been hearing about lately who kidnap, imprison, rape and torture young girls in secret basements. Can you imagine such a guy, simultaneously, having some other young lady as his dinner date, and treating her with respect and care? And even if he did for a while, wouldn't his true nature unleash itself upon her at some point in time, as it has on so many others? Of course!

So, to preach a literal Hell is to say there is no Heaven, and really, you pretty much have to reject everything Jesus actually did teach about God's nature.

But the real good news is there is no Hell, and Jesus' teachings about God's nature make Hell's existence impossible.
If one is willing to look, there's substantial evidence contained in the gospels to show that Jesus opposed the idea of Hell. For example, in Luke 9:51-56, is a story about his great disappointment with his disciples when they actually suggested imploring God to rain FIRE on a village just because they had rejected him. His response: "You don't know what spirit is inspiring this kind of talk!" Presumably, it was NOT the Holy Spirit. He went on, trying to explain how he had come to save, heal and relieve suffering, not be the CAUSE of it.

So it only stands to reason that this same Jesus, who was appalled at the very idea of burning a few people, for a few horrific minutes until they were dead, could never, ever burn BILLIONS of people for an ETERNITY!

True, there are a few statements that made their way into the copies of copies of copies of the gospel texts which place “Hell” on Jesus’ lips, but these adulterations came along many decades after his death, most likely due to the Church filling up with Greeks who imported their belief in Hades with them when they converted.

Bear in mind that the historical Protestant doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures applies only to the original autographs, not the copies. But sadly, the interpolations that made their way into those copies have provided a convenient excuse for a lot of people to get around following Jesus’ real message.
 
Old 02-02-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,197,002 times
Reputation: 401
Christ redeemed the covenant, and the sin that Adam brought the spiritual death to that covenant and communion with God. In Christ, man can enter into that covenant once again. He did not redeem mankind as a whole, but for only those that come out of the world and enter into that very covenant. His people.
Universalism cannot address the beloved passage in its context of John 3:16 in regards to the "world", therefore it strains every meaning to the salvific verses in question that proclaim He died for people that deny and reject Him their enitre lives, dying in their sin, apart from Christ and God.
Those people wil never inherit eternal life.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 02-02-2010 at 05:30 PM..
 
Old 02-03-2010, 02:44 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,577,650 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickLannoye View Post
Regardless of whether everyone goes to Heaven or not, one thing is for sure: if there is a Hell, there can be no Heaven for anyone!

I've actually written an entire book on this topic--Hell? No! Why You Can Be Certain There's No Such Place As Hell, (for anyone interested, you can get a free ecopy of Did Jesus Believe in Hell?, one of the most compelling chapters in my book at www.thereisnohell.com), but if I may, I'd like to share with you one of the many points I make in it to explain why.

Let's say you end up in Heaven trying to sing endless praises to a God who is, simultaneously, torturing billions of others. Unless you are given a de facto lobotomy (in which case, YOU would no longer be YOU, so you might as well have not had a soul to begin with), you would have to begin wondering, "When am I next?" and the joy of Heaven would be lost, replaced by gloom and foreboding! Why? Because you could never rely on a God who is so mean to be honest about making any exceptions.

After all, which is more difficult? For God to actively cause so much immense pain, for so many, for so long, or to go back on whatever promises he made to a few others that he would not put them in Hell too at some point?

It would be like accepting an invitation to live as a guest with one of these maniacal men we've been hearing about lately who kidnap, imprison, rape and torture young girls in secret basements. Can you imagine such a guy, simultaneously, having some other young lady as his dinner date, and treating her with respect and care? And even if he did for a while, wouldn't his true nature unleash itself upon her at some point in time, as it has on so many others? Of course!

So, to preach a literal Hell is to say there is no Heaven, and really, you pretty much have to reject everything Jesus actually did teach about God's nature.

But the real good news is there is no Hell, and Jesus' teachings about God's nature make Hell's existence impossible.
If one is willing to look, there's substantial evidence contained in the gospels to show that Jesus opposed the idea of Hell. For example, in Luke 9:51-56, is a story about his great disappointment with his disciples when they actually suggested imploring God to rain FIRE on a village just because they had rejected him. His response: "You don't know what spirit is inspiring this kind of talk!" Presumably, it was NOT the Holy Spirit. He went on, trying to explain how he had come to save, heal and relieve suffering, not be the CAUSE of it.

So it only stands to reason that this same Jesus, who was appalled at the very idea of burning a few people, for a few horrific minutes until they were dead, could never, ever burn BILLIONS of people for an ETERNITY!

True, there are a few statements that made their way into the copies of copies of copies of the gospel texts which place “Hell” on Jesus’ lips, but these adulterations came along many decades after his death, most likely due to the Church filling up with Greeks who imported their belief in Hades with them when they converted.

Bear in mind that the historical Protestant doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures applies only to the original autographs, not the copies. But sadly, the interpolations that made their way into those copies have provided a convenient excuse for a lot of people to get around following Jesus’ real message.
The only book that matters is the bible
 
Old 02-03-2010, 02:47 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,577,650 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Well do you not find it quite odd that the same Jesus who said to James and John "you know not what spirit you are off",when they wanted to call fire down from heaven to consume those who rejected the message is the same Jesus casting unbelievers in a lake of fire that burns eternally ? .
NO, I don't find it odd because He is the one that says it and He is the one that created it. He is the one sending the wicked in the Lake of Fire, not me, so no its not odd to me, because He laid out the foundation in the bible. What could be so odd when Christ says what you have to do to have life. If it seems odd to you, then that seems to be a problem on your end.
 
Old 02-03-2010, 02:53 PM
 
30 posts, read 17,149 times
Reputation: 17
please show me the verse Miss Shawn_2828 that says that those thrown in the Lake of Fire cease to exist in any way shape or form.

On the other hand there are many verses, as others have brought up, that support the idea that fire is used as a judgment or a means of removing wickedness or impurity

Last edited by Amperage; 02-03-2010 at 03:14 PM..
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