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All UR says is that if Christ came to save the world, all sinners, the ungodly, but doesn't save ALL then the sacrifice was pointless..
UNLESS you feel there were a predestined amount of people saved. The amount saved THEN is the exact same amount to be saved EVER.. the total number of people saved has been predetermined... don't you think?
So what is that number?
UR says all that are ever born is the number
ET says it is not predetermined but more are not saved than are saved
---and within ET you have the OSAS crowd and the "ROAO" crowd. (ROAO is my creation LOL -Repent Over And Over)
So you are espousing the ET- Once Saved Always Saved which is really saying that Christ died for a predetermined number of sinners to be saved. Anyone else has no choice but is predestined to eternal torment.... right?
Why can't that predetermined number be everyone who is ever born - ALL?
Is it that you see evidence for a place of eternal torment to exist or what?
God saves 'all' who come to Him.
Jesus said, "Of those you gave me, not one was lost."
If Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Muhammad, The Bab and Bahaulah were in the same room, they would all be bowing toward one another and hugging each other, they, through progressive revelation, have all been sent as messengers of God. The problems arise when men try to take over scripture for personal and selfish gains. Like you.
God has as many names as there are languages, but there is only one God.
It's men like you who start wars; over ignorance, arrogance and greed.
I,I,I, me,me,me.
He whom God shall manifest, lose your ego. It (you) is inappropiate and does not conform/adhere to Spirituality, what comes out of your mouth prejudice, intolerance, self-aggrandizement,belies what is in your heart, you are that obvious.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
They all may be hugging each other, but the rest of those guys are not important at all compared to Christ.
As for the war starting thing, Christ came to bring division:
Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”
So there is definitely something wrong with your super open-ended bologna.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
They all may be hugging each other, but the rest of those guys are not important at all compared to Christ.
As for the war starting thing, Christ came to bring division:
Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”
So there is definitely something wrong with your super open-ended bologna.
The I AM, (ego eimi) is an esoteric teaching Jesus was very familiar with and was the foundation of His teaching. I doubt you know anything about it?
You (Ego) would apparently rather rule than serve. FLAME ON!
I AM is not a designation or an identification of a particular person, Jesus of Nazareth, as is implied by the usual translations of ego eimi in this context, in which a non-existent predicate is supplied by the translators, wresting the original to yeild and ordinary commonsense meaning. But we are in the presence of something wholle extraordinary, and incomprehesible by any usual standards: a display of the state of identity of the Son with the Father, made possible by his participation in the mysterious and sacred name of God Himself. Even those who are unsympathetic and hostile to the teaching of Christ are struck by the force of the name ego eimi and cannot stand their ground. It is said that when Moses had used the secret name of God in front of the Pharaoh, even the mighty Pharaoh retreated and fell doen speechless.
We are told that when Christ said 'I AM', those who had come to arrest him, estimated between two hundred and six hundred men in all and some with weapons, stepped back and fell to the ground. What a manifestation of the tremendous force inherit in the divine name I AM!
" 'I AM,' the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me (as the 'I AM'/ 'ego eimi')."
The apostles who were before us, had used these names for him:
'Jesus' Issa, the Nazaorean (Greek), Messiah', that is, 'Jesus, the Nazorean, the Christ', the last name is 'Christ', the first is 'Jesus', thjat in the middle is 'the Nazarene'. 'Mesiah' has two meanings, both 'the Christ' and 'the measured'. 'Nazara' is 'the truth'. The Nazarene', then is 'the truth'. 'Christ' has been measured. 'The Nazarene' and 'Jesus' are they who have been measured. Phillip (11, 3:62)
I respect all the messengers of God equally as Progressive Revelation.
I suggest you visit an Exorcist to purge you of your ego and your malevolent backbiting tongue.
You're out-of-control. The Devil's got you spitting venom, anathema's.
God saves 'all' who come to Him.
Jesus said, "Of those you gave me, not one was lost."
THE GOSPEL
The gospel is taken from the Gospel according to St. Thomas:
Jesus said: I shall choose you, one out of a thousand, and two out of ten thousand, and they shall stand as a single one. His disciples said: Show us the place where thou art, for it is necessary for us to seek it. He said to them: Whoever has ears let him hear. Within a man of light there is light and he lights the whole world. When he does not shine, there is darkness. Jesus said: Love thy brother as thy soul, guard him as the apple of thine eye.
One thousand-A thousand at once, or, "As one man" [Maurer].
rebuke-the battle cry.
shall ye-at the rebuke of five shall ye, namely, all (in contrast to the "one thousand") flee so utterly that even two shall not be left together, but each one shall be as solitary "as a signal staff" [G. V. Smith], or "a banner on a hill" (Isa 5:26; 11:12). The signal staff was erected to rally a nation in war. The remnant of Jews left would be beacons to warn all men of the justice of God, and the truth of His threatenings. Gesenius (from Le 26:8; De 32:30) arbitrarily inserts "ten thousand." "At the rebuke of five shall ten thousand of you flee." Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary 30:8-18 The Jews were the only professing people God then had in the world, yet many among them were rebellious. They had the light, but they loved darkness rather. The prophets checked them in their sinful pursuits, so that they could not proceed without fear; this they took amiss. But faithful ministers will not be driven from seeking to awaken sinners. God is the Holy One of Israel, and so they shall find him. They did not like to hear of his holy commandments and his hatred of sin; they desired that they might no more be reminded of these things. But as they despised the word of God, their sins undermined their safety. Their state would be dashed in pieces like a potter's vessel. Let us return from our evil ways, and settle in the way of duty; that is the way to be saved. Would we be strengthened, it must be in quietness and in confidence, keeping peace in our own minds, and relying upon God. They think themselves wiser than God; but the project by which they thought to save themselves was their ruin. Only here and there one shall escape, as a warning to others. If men will not repent, turn to God, and seek happiness in his favour and service, their desires will but hasten their ruin. Those who make God alone their confidence, will have comfort. God ever waits to be gracious to all that come to him by faith in Christ, and happy are those who wait for him.
Last edited by Ocean Drifter; 02-16-2010 at 08:59 AM..
All people in hell exhibited goat-like rebellion to God's will (Mt. 25:31-46; Lk. 19:27). Therefore, they will experience this fiery furnace the Lord said exists (Mt. 13:42,50) and the blackest darkness that both Peter and Jude wrote of (2 Pet. 2:17; Jude 13). There will be no party there, according to the Bible. Some who refuse to repent and trust Jesus 100% for their soul's salvation say, "I'll take my chances." But they really aren't. It's a sure thing that they will be thrown into this lake of burning sulfur. There is no chance they will escape (Lk. 13:3; Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12).
Perhaps for those who were once saved, but afterwards ...
fall away because of persecution (Lk. 8:13 cf. Mt. 13:20,21);
are disowned by Christ for disowning him (Mt. 10:33);
become dead and lost as the Prodigal did through sin (Lk. 15:24,32);
believed in vain (1 Cor. 15:2);
have fallen away from grace by believing a false message about justification (Gal. 5:4);
returned to their former lifestyle of sinning after having escaped the corruption of the world by knowing Jesus Christ (2 Pet. 2:20-22);
get cut off from the Vine for bearing no fruit (Jn. 15:2,6);
become God's enemy again by loving the world (Jam. 4:4);
didn't remain in Christ (1 Jn. 2:24,25);
wouldn't forgive others who sinned against them (Mt. 18:22-35); or
received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image during the time of the Antichrist (Rev. 14:9-12; 13:8-10)
... then this place of eternal fire will be most horrible. This is assuming that such people do not come back to the Lord, as Peter did after he disowned Christ. The only exception to this, from the aforementioned list, is those who receive the mark of the beast. It seems that torment in burning sulfur is their irreversible future destiny (Rev. 14:9-12).
50% From The Last Generation
According to Jesus, five out of ten (or 50%) in the last generation who were once saved will experience this horrible fate (Mt. 25:1-13). The Lord could have said three out of ten or two out of ten, but he didn't. He said five out of ten or 50%! Such foolish virgins once had a lamp burning for God, but it stopped burning because it ran out of oil.
Jesus also taught:
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other (Mt. 24:10, NIV).
Though painful to admit, you potentially can still end up in eternal fire, even if you are a Christian at this moment! To believe otherwise is to be misinformed about the Biblical record.
The I AM, (ego eimi) is an esoteric teaching Jesus was very familiar with and was the foundation of His teaching. I doubt you know anything about it?
You (Ego) would apparently rather rule than serve. FLAME ON!
I AM is not a designation or an identification of a particular person, Jesus of Nazareth, as is implied by the usual translations of ego eimi in this context, in which a non-existent predicate is supplied by the translators, wresting the original to yeild and ordinary commonsense meaning. But we are in the presence of something wholle extraordinary, and incomprehesible by any usual standards: a display of the state of identity of the Son with the Father, made possible by his participation in the mysterious and sacred name of God Himself. Even those who are unsympathetic and hostile to the teaching of Christ are struck by the force of the name ego eimi and cannot stand their ground. It is said that when Moses had used the secret name of God in front of the Pharaoh, even the mighty Pharaoh retreated and fell doen speechless.
We are told that when Christ said 'I AM', those who had come to arrest him, estimated between two hundred and six hundred men in all and some with weapons, stepped back and fell to the ground. What a manifestation of the tremendous force inherit in the divine name I AM!
" 'I AM,' the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me (as the 'I AM'/ 'ego eimi')."
The apostles who were before us, had used these names for him:
'Jesus' Issa, the Nazaorean (Greek), Messiah', that is, 'Jesus, the Nazorean, the Christ', the last name is 'Christ', the first is 'Jesus', thjat in the middle is 'the Nazarene'. 'Mesiah' has two meanings, both 'the Christ' and 'the measured'. 'Nazara' is 'the truth'. The Nazarene', then is 'the truth'. 'Christ' has been measured. 'The Nazarene' and 'Jesus' are they who have been measured. Phillip (11, 3:62)
I respect all the messengers of God equally as Progressive Revelation.
I suggest you visit an Exorcist to purge you of your ego and your malevolent backbiting tongue.
You're out-of-control. The Devil's got you spitting venom, anathema's.
Are you aware that the guy Jesus heals in the next chapter says the same thing?
Therefore the neighbors and those who previously had seen that he was blind said, “Is not this he who sat and begged?”
Some said, “This is he.” Others said, “He is like him.”
He said, “Ego eimi.”
That statement implies absolutely nothing! I AM THAT I AM in the old testament happens to have a completely different meaning to top it off.
All people in hell exhibited goat-like rebellion to God's will (Mt. 25:31-46; Lk. 19:27). Therefore, they will experience this fiery furnace the Lord said exists (Mt. 13:42,50) and the blackest darkness that both Peter and Jude wrote of (2 Pet. 2:17; Jude 13). There will be no party there, according to the Bible. Some who refuse to repent and trust Jesus 100% for their soul's salvation say, "I'll take my chances." But they really aren't. It's a sure thing that they will be thrown into this lake of burning sulfur. There is no chance they will escape (Lk. 13:3; Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12).
Perhaps for those who were once saved, but afterwards ...
fall away because of persecution (Lk. 8:13 cf. Mt. 13:20,21);
are disowned by Christ for disowning him (Mt. 10:33);
become dead and lost as the Prodigal did through sin (Lk. 15:24,32);
believed in vain (1 Cor. 15:2);
have fallen away from grace by believing a false message about justification (Gal. 5:4);
returned to their former lifestyle of sinning after having escaped the corruption of the world by knowing Jesus Christ (2 Pet. 2:20-22);
get cut off from the Vine for bearing no fruit (Jn. 15:2,6);
become God's enemy again by loving the world (Jam. 4:4);
didn't remain in Christ (1 Jn. 2:24,25);
wouldn't forgive others who sinned against them (Mt. 18:22-35); or
received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image during the time of the Antichrist (Rev. 14:9-12; 13:8-10)
... then this place of eternal fire will be most horrible. This is assuming that such people do not come back to the Lord, as Peter did after he disowned Christ. The only exception to this, from the aforementioned list, is those who receive the mark of the beast. It seems that torment in burning sulfur is their irreversible future destiny (Rev. 14:9-12).
50% From The Last Generation
According to Jesus, five out of ten (or 50%) in the last generation who were once saved will experience this horrible fate (Mt. 25:1-13). The Lord could have said three out of ten or two out of ten, but he didn't. He said five out of ten or 50%! Such foolish virgins once had a lamp burning for God, but it stopped burning because it ran out of oil.
Jesus also taught:
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other (Mt. 24:10, NIV).
Though painful to admit, you potentially can still end up in eternal fire, even if you are a Christian at this moment! To believe otherwise is to be misinformed about the Biblical record.
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
God is love.
Love never fails.
Losing 50% = Failure
Heck, losing one is failure:
What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’
Are you aware that the guy Jesus heals in the next chapter says the same thing?
Therefore the neighbors and those who previously had seen that he was blind said, “Is not this he who sat and begged?”
Some said, “This is he.” Others said, “He is like him.”
He said, “Ego eimi.”
That statement implies absolutely nothing! I AM THAT I AM in the old testament happens to have a completely different meaning to top it off.
The parable of the blind man gaining sight is an allegory for one who is spiritually blind and has been 'Awakened' to his spiritual reality. "SELF"-Realization.
Had you gone beyond the narrow-midenedness in your ivestigation and the superficiality of your literal perception of I AM and read the Eastern interpretation, and thereby experiencing the Word, as it was meant to be experienced, your vision would have been more expanded and more insightful, instead of the incitefully egoic and insolent professing of rhetoric [pathetic-parroting and dogma] about something you do not know the true meaning of. It is beyond the thinking mechanism, and wordly matters.
Moses ask God what was His name so he could tell the Israelites, that they would believe he had spoken to God? God said tell them 'I AM' THAT 'IAM'.
The ineffible.
Last edited by Ocean Drifter; 02-17-2010 at 03:03 PM..
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