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So, you're saying that you are a universalist. Okay. No need for me to spend any more time on you.
So, you're saying that you do not believe the Gospel and that God does not justify the ungodly, as He so declares. Okay. No need for me spend any more time on you...LOL
The believer is not declared righteous, the believer is IMPUTED with God's own righteousness and Declared JUSTIFIED on the basis of that righteousness.
Do you understand what the word justify means? It means to declare righteous. To declare someone justified means to declare them righteous!
The greek word to justify is: δικαιόω - dikaioō. It means:
Thayer Definition:
1) to render righteous or such he ought to be
2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
The sinner, the ungodly, the impious are justifiedbecause of Christ's work. And they are justified on that basis alone. They are justified by Christ alone and are so declared by God on this work alone. This is what scripture teaches.
Up until now, I've been quoting the YLT that uses the literal phrase "declared righteous" for the term justified found in the NASB. To help you out, I'll quote using the NASB (1977 ed):
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
We were justified by His blood when He died for us! At the cross! We are justified before coming to faith and being imputed with His righteousness!
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
We were reconciled when we were His enemies. We are reconciled before coming to faith and being imputed with His righteousness!
Rom 4:25 He who was delivered up because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.
We were justified in His resurrection. We were justified before coming to faith and being imputed with His righteousness.
The act that justifies happened one time only and it resulted in justification:
Rom 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Justification (being declared righteous) proceeds being imputed with righteousness.
There is a different word for reckoning, or to impute:
The greek word is: λογίζομαι - logizomai. It means:
Thayer Definition:
1) to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over
1a) to take into account, to make an account of
1a1) metaphorically to pass to one’s account, to impute
1a2) a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i.e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight
1b) to number among, reckon with
1c) to reckon or account
2) to reckon inward, count up or weigh the reasons, to deliberate
3) by reckoning up all the reasons, to gather or infer
3a) to consider, take into account, weigh, meditate on
3b) to suppose, deem, judge
3c) to determine, purpose, decide
To justify is different than reckoning or imputing. We are justified because of Christ alone and his work. Because of that justification, we can now have our account reckoned, through faith.
Justification takes place one time, for all, at the cross. The reckoning of it, to the believer, takes place through faith. Two different acts, two different events.
Rom 4:21 and being fully assured that what He had promised, He was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 Therefore also IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Rom 4:23 Now not for his sake only was it written, that it was reckoned to him,
Rom 4:24 but for our sake also, to whom it will be reckoned, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,
The concept of justifying and reckoning is found in this wonderful verse, the heart of the Gospel message:
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,
Please don't make me do this again...LOL
Actually, I'm really not doing it for you Mike, I know you do not believe it. Your testimony has consistently denied it. I'm doing it for those who may find this thread, and by God's grace, believe in the Gospel. No need for a response.
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 01-25-2010 at 12:58 PM..
Reason: typo
Do you understand what the word justify means? It means to declare righteous. To declare someone justified means to declare them righteous!
The greek word for justify is: δικαιόω - dikaioō. It means:
Thayer Definition:
1) to render righteous or such he ought to be
2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
The sinner, the ungodly, the impious are justifiedbecause of Christ's work. And they are justified on that basis alone. They are justified by Christ alone and are so declared by God on this work alone. This is what scripture teaches.
Up until now, I've been quoting the YLT that uses the literal phrase "declared righteous" for the term justified found in the NASB. To help you out, I'll quote using the NASB (1977 ed):
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
We were justified by His blood when He died for us! At the cross! We are justified before coming to faith and being imputed with His righteousness!
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
We were reconciled when we were His enemies. We are reconciled before coming to faith and being imputed with His righteousness!
Rom 4:25 He who was delivered up because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.
We were justified in His resurrection. We were justified before coming to faith and being imputed with His righteousness.
The act that justifies happened one time only and it resulted in justification:
Rom 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Justification (being declared righteous) proceeds being imputed with righteousness.
There is a different word for reckoning, or to impute:
The greek word is: λογίζομαι - logizomai. It means:
Thayer Definition:
1) to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over
1a) to take into account, to make an account of
1a1) metaphorically to pass to one’s account, to impute
1a2) a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i.e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight
1b) to number among, reckon with
1c) to reckon or account
2) to reckon inward, count up or weigh the reasons, to deliberate
3) by reckoning up all the reasons, to gather or infer
3a) to consider, take into account, weigh, meditate on
3b) to suppose, deem, judge
3c) to determine, purpose, decide
To justify is different than reckoning or imputing. We are justified because of Christ alone and his work. Because of that justification, we can now have our account reckoned, through faith.
Justification takes place one time, for all, at the cross. The reckoning of it, to the believer, takes place through faith. Two different acts, two different events.
Rom 4:21 and having been fully persuaded that what He hath promised He is able also to do:
Rom 4:22 wherefore also it was reckoned to him to righteousness.
Rom 4:23 And it was not written on his account alone, that it was reckoned to him,
Rom 4:24 but also on ours, to whom it is about to be reckoned--to us believing on Him who did raise up Jesus our Lord out of the dead,
The concept of justifying and reckoning is found in this wonderful verse, the heart of the Gospel message:
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,
Please don't make me do this again...LOL
Actually, I'm really not doing it for you Mike, I know you do not believe it. Your testimony has consistently denied it. I'm doing it for those who may find this thread, and by God's grace, believe in the Gospel. No need for a response.
The believer is first imputed with God's perfect righteousness after he has believed in Christ. And as a result of being in possession of God's righteousness, God is able to declare that believer justified in His sight. The believer is justified on and only on the basis of being in possession of the perfect divine righteousness that God has just imputed to Him after he has believed in Christ.
Justification means 'vindication'; therefore, it is the judicial act of God whereby He imputes His righteousness to the new believer at the point of salvation, thereby vindicating or justifying him.
Readers should understand that this poster is a universalist. Universalists distort the Gospel by stating that everyone will be saved.
Everyone will not be saved. Reconciliation has been fulfilled. The covenant is now and God is all in all with those who come into the faith. Christ redeemed the Garden lost, and now is found for those in Christ. Christ atoned for the sins of many, for those that believe in Him. The free gift is available to all mankind, but one must enter into the faith to partake from the Tree of Life.
The believer is first imputed with God's perfect righteousness after he has believed in Christ. And as a result of being in possession of God's righteousness, God is able to declare that believer justified in His sight. The believer is justified on and only on the basis of being in possession of the perfect divine righteousness that God has just imputed to Him after he has believed in Christ.
Justification means 'vindication'; therefore, it is the judicial act of God whereby He imputes His righteousness to the new believer at the point of salvation, thereby vindicating or justifying him.
Readers should understand that this poster is a universalist. Universalists distort the Gospel by stating that everyone will be saved.
To vindicate means to clear of any charges. Yes, it does, indeed. Christ in His death cleared us (the sinner) of all charges before God. And God declared it so at the cross. This much you have said in truth..LOL
To believe the Gospel is to believe that God justifies the ungodly. God justifies the sinner in Christ alone, and for Christ's sake alone. Those who have already been reckoned (imputed with righteousness) are not called the ungodly my friend.
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,
Just how many ungodly people are there that God justified? Let's find out:
Rom 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
Rom 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
Rom 3:13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
Rom 3:14 "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
Rom 3:15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
Rom 3:16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
Rom 3:17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE HAVE THEY NOT KNOWN."
Rom 3:18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
All of these ungodly sinners in the next verse are said to be, what, can't be so, can it? ...LOL Yes! It can, and it is:
Rom 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
To deny this is to believe that something other than Christ alone is the cause of the sinners justification before God. If so, they do not believe the Gospel, and they have never been imputed or reckoned to righteousness. Say as you will. Mock God. Until you do believe the Gospel, you will never be imputed with His righteousness.
Readers should also understand that the universal proclamation of the Gospel is scriptural. If you want to tag me as a universal believer on that cause, please do so. And thank-you for so doing. We know that the Gospel is to be proclaimed to the world:
Mar 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
And what it accomplished is proclaimed here:
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
The Gospel is a proclamation, not an offer. It is truth, not a potential dream. However, it is not a proclamation to the righteous (or rather the self righteous, for truly there are none righteous). For Christ came not to call the righteous, but to call sinners. It is good news to the sinner. It's proclamation is to all sinners. To all the unrighteous. To all the impious ones. It is God's declaration to the ungodly that they are justified in Christ by His work. And, it is also God's word. And this proclamation will not return to Him void.
God's eternal decree also states, without ambiguity, that those justified (the ungodly impious ones spoken of in Rom 4:5) will also be glorified:
Rom 8:30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Mock and hate God's declaration if you will. The self righteous always do. However, it is truth and it's scriptural. Praise God!
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 01-25-2010 at 02:35 PM..
Reason: typo
To vindicate means to clear of any charges. Yes, it does, indeed. Christ in His death cleared us (the sinner) of all charges before God. And God declared it so at the cross. This much you have said in truth..LOL
To believe the Gospel is to believe that God justifies the ungodly. God justifies the sinner in Christ alone, and for Christ's sake alone. Those who have already been reckoned (imputed with righteousness) are not called the ungodly my friend.
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,
Just how many ungodly people are there that God justified? Let's find out:
Rom 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
Rom 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
Rom 3:13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
Rom 3:14 "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
Rom 3:15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
Rom 3:16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
Rom 3:17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE HAVE THEY NOT KNOWN."
Rom 3:18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
All of these ungodly sinners in the next verse are said to be, what, can't be so, can it? ...LOL Yes! It can, and it is:
Rom 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
To deny this is to believe that something other than Christ alone is the cause of the sinners justification before God. If so, they do not believe the Gospel, and they have never been imputed or reckoned to righteousness. Say as you will. Mock God. Until you do believe the Gospel, you will never be imputed with His righteousness.
Readers should also understand that the universal proclamation of the Gospel is scriptural. If you want to tag me as a universal believer on that cause, please do so. And thank-you for so doing. We know that the Gospel is to be proclaimed to the world:
Mar 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
And what it accomplished is proclaimed here:
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
The Gospel is a proclamation, not an offer. It is truth, not a potential dream. However, it is not a proclamation to the righteous (or rather the self righteous, for truly there are none righteous). For Christ came not to call the righteous, but to call sinners. It is good news to the sinner. It's proclamation is to all sinners. To all the unrighteous. To all the impious ones. It is God's declaration to the ungodly that they are justified in Christ by His work. And, it is also God's word. And this proclamation will not return to Him void.
God's eternal decree also states, without ambiguity, that those justified (the ungodly impious ones spoken of in Rom 4:5) will also be glorified:
Rom 8:30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Mock and hate God's declaration if you will. The self righteous always do. However, it is truth and it's scriptural. Praise God!
This poster is a universalist. Universalists distort the Gospel by claiming that everyone is saved.
This poster is a universalist. Universalists distort the Gospel by claiming that everyone is saved.
The poster who made that comment (above) does not believe the Gospel. But you will my friend. I have it on God's authority that you will, in time:
Rom 14:11 For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
Php 2:10 that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth,
The scriptures I previously posted are not wishful thinking my friend, but are from God. It is God that justifies the ungodly, not you or I, and certainly not based upon what you or I think He does, or does not do. It is a work of God and a declaration by God, to the sinner, that makes it so. Please, don't deny the sinner that wonderful declaration from God.
I love this truth so much that I'm going to post it again. I want you to read it again, and shout for joy. For therein, is your justification proclaimed. Also, notice that the term justifies is in the present tense and active voice. God is justifying the ungodly right now, as we speak. Believe it:
Rom 4:5 τω 3588[BUT TO HIM] δε 1161 μη 3361[THAT] εργαζομενω 2038(5740)[DOES NOT WORK,] πιστευοντι 4100(5723)[BUT BELIEVES] δε 1161[ON] επι 1909[HIM] τον 3588[THAT] δικαιουντα 1344(5723)[JUSTIFIES] τον 3588[THE] ασεβη 765[UNGODLY,] λογιζεται 3049(5736)[IS RECKONED] η 3588[HIS] πιστις 4102 αυτου 846[FAITH] εις 1519[FOR] δικαιοσυνην 1343[RIGHTEOUSNESS.]
Here it is in the NASB. You really do need to get a more literal translation though...LOL But none-the-less, the truth is still there, and here it is:
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,
A more literal translation from YLT is here:
Rom 4:5 and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned--to righteousness:
For those who believe this truth, their faith is reckoned to righteousness. Believe the truth, my friend. Make it so. Be reckoned today!
Praise God for it! Hallelujah! (the trinity salute)
Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 01-25-2010 at 03:54 PM..
Reason: Added reference
The poster who made that comment (above) does not believe the Gospel. But you will my friend. I have it on God's authority that you will, in time:
Rom 14:11 For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
Php 2:10 that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth,
The scriptures I previously posted are not wishful thinking my friend, but are from God. It is God that justifies the ungodly, not you or I, and certainly not based upon what you or I think He does, or does not do. It is a work of God and a declaration by God, to the sinner, that makes it so. Please, don't deny the sinner that wonderful declaration from God.
I love this truth so much that I'm going to post it again. I want you to read it again, and shout for joy. For therein, is your justification proclaimed. Also, notice that the term justifies is in the present tense and active voice. God is justifying the ungodly right now, as we speak. Believe it:
Rom 4:5 τω 3588[BUT TO HIM] δε 1161 μη 3361[THAT] εργαζομενω 2038(5740)[DOES NOT WORK,] πιστευοντι 4100(5723)[BUT BELIEVES] δε 1161[ON] επι 1909[HIM] τον 3588[THAT] δικαιουντα 1344(5723)[JUSTIFIES] τον 3588[THE] ασεβη 765[UNGODLY,] λογιζεται 3049(5736)[IS RECKONED] η 3588[HIS] πιστις 4102 αυτου 846[FAITH] εις 1519[FOR] δικαιοσυνην 1343[RIGHTEOUSNESS.]
Here it is in the NASB. You really do need to get a more literal translation though...LOL But none-the-less, the truth is still there, and here it is:
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,
A more literal translation from YLT is here:
Rom 4:5 and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned--to righteousness:
For those who believe this truth, their faith is reckoned to righteousness. Believe the truth, my friend. Make it so. Be reckoned today!
Praise God for it! Hallelujah! (the trinity salute)
As long as you keep posting your universalist distortions on this thread I will keep making it clear to the readers that you are a universalist. Eventually, the moderators will step in and probably just shut down the thread. Which is fine with me. If you resort to personal attacks and insults as you have done in the past on another thread, I will simply report it and let the moderators handle it.
As long as you keep posting your universalist distortions on this thread I will keep making it clear to the readers that you are a universalist. Eventually, the moderators will step in and probably just shut down the thread. Which is fine with me. If you resort to personal attacks and insults as you have done in the past on another thread, I will simply report it and let the moderators handle it.
I've only posted scripture, my friend...LOL What part of the scriptures didn't you like? What part of those truths in the Gospel have you been offended by? The truth of the Gospel is foolishness to those who do not believe it:
1Co 1:23 also we--we preach Christ crucified, to Jews, indeed, a stumbling-block, and to Greeks foolishness,
1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
You said I've posted distortions. I countered and said you do not believe the Gospel. The Gospel is Christ crucified.
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
Rom 4:25 He who was delivered up because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.
Do you believe this Gospel? If not, then yes, you will be offended by Christ justifying the sinner in His blood and resurrection. If you choose to call me a universalist, I'll choose to call you an unbeliever. You can interpret the term unbeliever how ever you like...LOL
Again (and thank-you for doing so), you've opened a wonderful door for the Gospel to be proclaimed, the Gospel of Christ and His death for the sinner. The true Gospel, whereby the sinner is declared justified by God on Christ's merits alone.
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. I thought you didn't want to waste more time with me, but then you had to add this stab anyway. 
...LOL Yes! It can, and it is:
The truth of the Gospel is foolishness to those who do not believe it: