Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you believe it is your faith that God sees and therefore (on that basis) pronounces you justified, you really don't believe the Gospel message being proclaimed to the sinner. That's what I've been stating here for quite some time...
Faith is a gift from God that brings with it the reckoning of righteousness to our account. However, it does not justify us before God. Only Christ can justify us before God. Christ alone. Those that believe that it is Christ alone are reckoned to righteousness. Those who do not, are not reckoned so. This is what the scriptures proclaim.
If you had said "Christ died for my sins, therefore I am justified" and actually believed this, then yes, you are reckoned with God's righteousness by faith.
Everything that I am and have is from God...including Faith but I have the chose to use it or neglect it... Accept or Reject...What is your problem with my messages? You are totally misunderstanding. I am not saying that I am anything apart from God. God created me but the sin in me that I inherited from Adam's disobedience has to be dealt with and that is by chose...my freewill chose....PERIOD....
A gift is a gift but we have the chose to throw it out the window or reject it...
Faith is not from God. The Gospel is from God. The faith is the responsibility of the hearer of the Gospel. It is salvation that comes from God contingent upon faith directed toward Christ who has the merit in salvation.
If your faith is not from God, you can not believe the Gospel and you are not imputed with His righteousness. The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit. It is foolishness to him:
1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
Everything that I am and have is from God...including Faith but I have the chose to use it or neglect it... Accept or Reject...What is your problem with my messages? You are totally misunderstanding. I am not saying that I am anything apart from God. God created me but the sin in me that I inherited from Adam's disobedience has to be dealt with and that is by chose...my freewill chose....PERIOD....
A gift is a gift but we have the chose to throw it out the window or reject it...
The problem is you cannot choose Christ apart from God who gives faith to the sinner to do so:
Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh 3:8 "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
And finally, why this is so:
Joh 1:13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Salvation is conditional on Christ alone. Not our faith. Nowhere is our faith mentioned in the eternal order of God's decree. What is required is the following:
Rom 8:30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
God predestined whom he calls:
Eph 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace,
To call whom he predestined, the sinner:
Luk 5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."
To justify the sinner, whom he called:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
And finally, to glorify the sinner, whom he justified:
Rom 8:30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Nope. Every single salvation passage, which you choose to ignore by the way, make it absolutely clear that your salvation is conditional on your decision to place your faith in Christ. And again, the merit is not in your faith, but rather the merit is in the object of faith which is Jesus Christ. You just continue to ignore all those pesky little salvation passages. They just aren't there as far as you're concerned. Universalism has set you against the truth. Everyone is not and will not be saved. Only those who place their trust in Christ have salvation.
The problem is you cannot choose Christ apart from God who gives faith to the sinner to do so:
Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh 3:8 "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
And finally, why this is so:
Joh 1:13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
This is the entire crux of the argument.. the greek meaning for Faith is peithio and it means: put confidence in, put trust in, listen, obey. The Israelites did not accept the good news, therefore they chose not to have faith in the Word that they heard or the message.... We have a part in this and God does not force anyone to accept the message...
Romans 10:16
16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"[h] 17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
18But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
Nope. Every single salvation passage, which you choose to ignore by the way, make it absolutely clear that your salvation is conditional on your decision to place your faith in Christ. And again, the merit is not in your faith, but rather the merit is in the object of faith which is Jesus Christ. You just continue to ignore all those pesky little salvation passages. They just aren't there as far as you're concerned. Universalism has set you against the truth. Everyone is not and will not be saved. Only those who place their trust in Christ have salvation.
The red is your error. The blue, however, is a partial truth and I commend you for even that part. Salvation includes many parts to it and the timing for each of those parts is not the same. Calling proceeds justification. Justification proceeds glorification, ect. Only those who are believing have been reckoned to righteousness, this is true. And only those who are reckoned as such have the seal of the Spirit.
However, salvation is not conditional. And God has declared it is His will that all men are to be saved:
1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
Now then. Is it also your testimony that God lied concerning His will to save all men? Is this your testimony before God and His Christ, for whom Christ died?
The red is your error. The blue, however, is a partial truth and I commend you for even that part. Salvation includes many parts to it and the timing for each of those parts is not the same. Calling proceeds justification. Justification proceeds glorification, ect. Only those who are believing have been reckoned to righteousness, this is true. And only those who are reckoned as such have the seal of the Spirit.
However, salvation is not conditional. And God has declared it is His will that all men are to be saved:
1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
Now then. Is it also your testimony that God lied concerning His will to save all men? Is this your testimony before God and His Christ, for whom Christ died?
IT IS HIS DESIRE THAT ALL MEN ARE TO BE SAVED BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT HAPPENS AS DECLARED THROUGH THE SCRIPTURE.
You can desire for your child to be a straight 'A' student but does that mean that he will get straight A's? It is dependent on him not you....
This is the entire crux of the argument.. the greek meaning for Faith is peithio and it means: put confidence in, put trust in, listen, obey. The Israelites did not accept the good news, therefore they chose not to have faith in the Word that they heard or the message.... We have a part in this and God does not force anyone to accept the message...
Romans 10:16
16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"[h] 17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
18But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
They could not choose to believe. That is the crux of the matter. They could only choose not to believe. All sinners are spiritually dead in sin until God gives faith and life to believe. That is what scripture teaches.
Faith does come from hearing, but not in hearing only, but in the power of the Spirit:
1Th 1:5 for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.
If your faith is not from God, you can not believe the Gospel and you are not imputed with His righteousness. The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit. It is foolishness to him:
1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
That's why God the Holy Spirit makes the Gospel understandable to the hearer of the Gospel. Once the hearer understands the issue, it is his responsibility to make a decision for or against Christ.
IT IS HIS DESIRE THAT ALL MEN ARE TO BE SAVED BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT HAPPENS AS DECLARED THROUGH THE SCRIPTURE.
You can desire for your child to be a straight 'A' student but does that mean that he will get straight A's? It is dependent on him not you....
It is not a simple desire, but rather a will to make it happen. The Greek word in 1 Tim 2:4 is the same will found in Rom. 9:18. It is this will that God used on Pharaoh to harden his heart. It is used to achieve God's purposes and desires, regardless of what the object of that will thinks.
The Greek word for will in 1 Tim 2:4 and Rom 9:18 is:
θέλω
thélō; ***. thelḗsō. To will, wish, desire, implying active volition and purpose.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
