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Old 01-26-2010, 04:26 PM
 
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Book: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - The Vatican- msnbc.com . Can whipping ourselves make us more acceptable in Gods sight ? Why or why not ?
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Old 01-26-2010, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Colorado
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Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Book: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - The Vatican- msnbc.com . Can whipping ourselves make us more acceptable in Gods sight ? Why or why not ?
I'm not catholic, and maybe because of that, I don't understand the idea behind self-mortification. I don't think it's Bible based...
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Old 01-26-2010, 04:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Book: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - The Vatican- msnbc.com . Can whipping ourselves make us more acceptable in Gods sight ? Why or why not ?
I believe as Paul said, in buffeting our bodies to fight sin but whipping? I don't know...interesting.
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LoneSentinel View Post
I'm not catholic, and maybe because of that, I don't understand the idea behind self-mortification. I don't think it's Bible based (?)...
I found this comparison to help answer your question :


[SIZE=+2]Penance[/SIZE]Another series of good works which Catholicism requires is known as penance:
[CENTER]"Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused. Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must 'make satisfaction for' or 'expiate' his sins. This satisfaction is also called 'penance.'" Pg. 366, #1459[/CENTER]
Millions of Catholics around the world faithfully perform penance, believing these good works are required by God to "make amends for" their sins and to restore them to "full spiritual health."
However, the written Scriptures reveal that this practice is another tradition of men that defies God's Word and degrades the work Christ did on the cross.
As we have already covered, Christ paid the full price for our sins at Calvary. To believe that good works are necessary to recover one's "full spiritual health" is to deny God's Word. God makes this promise to all who put their faith in Jesus Christ:
[CENTER]"And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where re-mission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." Hebrews 10:17-18[/CENTER]
God promises never to remember the sins of true Christians, and declares that once sins are forgiven through faith in Christ, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, there aren't any works you can do that will cause your sins to be forgiven. Christ did it all!
Yet, the Catechism keeps pouring out man-made rules:
[CENTER]"The penance the confessor imposes must take into account the penitent's personal situation and must seek his spiritual good. It must correspond as far as possible with the gravity and nature of the sins committed." Pg 367, #1460 [/CENTER]
The Catechism even defines specific good works that can constitute penance:
[CENTER]"(Penance) can consist of prayer, an offering, works of mercy, service of neighbor, voluntary self-denial, sacrifices, and above all the patient acceptance of the cross we must bear." Pg 367, #1460[/CENTER]
But God has never demanded good works for forgiveness of sins:
[CENTER]"For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee." Psalm 86:5[/CENTER]
The Bible declares that Christians are justified through Jesus Christ, not good works:
[CENTER]"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ... for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:16 [/CENTER]
Paul knew that if righteousness was earned through good works, then Christ died for nothing:
[CENTER]"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Galatians 2:21[/CENTER]
The Catechism even extends this tradition to suggest that penance can help the dead:
[CENTER]"The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:" Pg. 269, #1032[/CENTER]
Like cement blocks on a concrete wall, they keep piling, tradition on top of tradition. And every one violates clear teachings of Scripture
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:39 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
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LOL...this reminded me of something. Back in the 70's there was a rest stop in this area that had a self-kicking machine.....it was a leg with a boot that would willingly kick you wherever you so desired.
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:43 PM
 
Location: southern california
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per op
apparently very well, im still doing it and it works great. problem is ill never hook up bek although lots of applicants, the job of flogging me is already taken and frankly im much better at it.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
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Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
LOL...this reminded me of something. Back in the 70's there was a rest stop in this area that had a self-kicking machine.....it was a leg with a boot that would willingly kick you wherever you so desired.


Seriously, I have to go back to the fact that our bodies are the temple of God, and I don't believe I have the right to do harm to it. Also, isn't warfare (against sin, lust, etc.) spiritual in nature? One should be able to "check their spirit" without having to physically work themselves over.

It's like saying you can't pray without folding your hands together.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
LOL...this reminded me of something. Back in the 70's there was a rest stop in this area that had a self-kicking machine.....it was a leg with a boot that would willingly kick you wherever you so desired.
Yes., thats funny...and the thought of banging your head against the wall because it feels so good when you stop, came to mind . On a more serious note, there is nothing we can do to atone or expiate our sins to be more suitable to God --- that was the whole purpose of Christs atonement which means it can only be recieved by faith, and not beating ourselves to a pulp . Im also greatly troubled knowing people will walk miles on their bloody knees especially in Mexico, at an act of penitence .

'There is therefore, no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus' .
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
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Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Yes., thats funny...and the thought of banging your head against the wall because it feels so good when you stop, came to mind . On a more serious note, there is nothing we can do to atone or expiate our sins to be more suitable to God --- that was the whole purpose of Christs atonement which means it can only be recieved by faith, and not beating ourselves to a pulp . Im also greatly troubled knowing people will walk miles on their bloody knees especially in Mexico, at an act of penitence .

'There is therefore, no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus' .
Repped.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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I can't remember the exact quote, but in his old age John Paul would refer to his body as a donkey that he was going to continue to ride as long as it would continue to carry him.

I totally agree with subjecting our flesh to the Spirit by way of our own free will.

If that means trying to refrain from desires of the flesh that impede the Spirit of Christ emotionally, mentally or physically,

I'm in support of it.
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