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Old 01-28-2010, 07:22 PM
 
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Eternal salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Please read this study.

BIBLE STUDY MANUALS: MATTHEW CHAPTER 7
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Old 01-29-2010, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
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I agree. No amount of works or good deeds, regardless of how good and wonderful they might be, will ever make us worthy, or grant us the right of eternal life with God. It is only faith in Jesus alone that will do that.

That said, once we become saved through faith, then the fruit of that should become into evidence. We should afterwards just WANT to do good things...it will just be a natural result of being born again. Like it is just natural for an apple tree to bear apples, an orange tree to bear oranges, etc.

Here's a related reference: James 1:22-25

22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Something to think about: Are we being doers of the Word, or hearers only?

Bud
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:04 AM
 
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Sure eternal salvation is by believing through faith. Faith is an action word so it is not by doing good works,,, but it is by doing faith, faith is believing things as though they are though the love and confidence of the Lord God.... Many things can inhibit that faith,,, like the devil who will come when the word is heard and try to change your ideas to faithlessness of evil ideas,,,, the cares of this world can stop faith,,,, greef can stop faith,,,,fear can stop receiving from heaven that can stop faith,,,,, failing to pray unceasing in confidence of the Lord God can stop faith,,,,, Faith is doing
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Old 01-30-2010, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,626,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Eternal salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Please read this study.

BIBLE STUDY MANUALS: MATTHEW CHAPTER 7
Salvation is rendered based on works. (not ours of course) It is based on the works of Christ that each of us must do. In other words we are not saved by gazing at Jesus on the cross. We have to carry ours also.

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds (works):
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Many people don't realize that immortality and eternal life (Salvation) is rendered based on works. Paul goes on to show that it isn't our works that save us but His (Christ) that we must perform in order to be saved.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Salvation is rendered based on works. (not ours of course) It is based on the works of Christ that each of us must do. In other words we are not saved by gazing at Jesus on the cross. We have to carry ours also.

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds (works):
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Many people don't realize that immortality and eternal life (Salvation) is rendered based on works. Paul goes on to show that it isn't our works that save us but His (Christ) that we must perform in order to be saved.
We do not perform Christ's works for salvation. The work of Christ was to bear the penalty for the sins of humanity. To pay the price for them. To redeem man from sin. To die spiritually for mankind. And to be resurrected.

Man does nothing for salvation other than to believe; to place his trust in Christ to provide that salvation.

And what does John 6:28 say? 'They said therefore to Him, ''What shall we do, that we may work the works (plural) of God?'' Jesus answered and said to them, ''This is the work (singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.''

In John 6:28 Jesus did a play on words. When asked by the disciples what ''Works'' they needed to do to do the work of God, Jesus replied and said that the 'Work', of God is simply to believe. Nothing else. In other words, No Works. (For salvation. That is all I am talking about. I am not addressing the issue of your spiritual life after salvation. Which by the way, good works are the result of your spiritual life. NOT the means of producing it).

Romans 11:6 tells us 'But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.'

The work of Christ on the Cross in providing salvation is His work. We do not perform His work. We receive through faith, the benefits of His work.

Whenever two passages may seem to contradict each other you have to realize that one passage is not saying what it seems to be saying on the surface. You have to dig deeper to find out what is really being said.

Romans 2:1-16 is showing that Gentile pagan moralizers are no better than other pagans.

Here is what Romans 2:7 is saying. And I quote C.I. Scofield.

quote
(2:7) In vv. 7 and 13 the cases are hypothetical. Paul is not teaching the possibility of salvation by works but is, rather, showing why all men without exception are lost. As he later states, no man has continued in well doing, nor is he a doer of the law (cp. 3:19-20). The means of justification for sinners, entirely by faith in Christ, is set forth in 3:21-8:39.
unquote

(New Scofield Reference Edition, footnote for Romans 2:7, pp. 1212,1213.)

The outline of Romans is this.

quote
Introduction and Theme, 1:1-17. I. The Whole World Guilty before God, 1:18-3:20. II.Justification by Faith in Christ, 3:21-5:21. III. Sanctification through Union with Christ in His Death and Resurrection, 6-8. IV. The Problem of Jewish Unbelief, 9-11. V. Christian Life and Service for the Glory of God, 12:1-15:13. Conclusion: The Outflow of Christian Love, 15:14-16:27.
unquote
(New Scofield Reference Edition, p.1210)
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,626,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
We do not perform Christ's works for salvation. The work of Christ was to bear the penalty for the sins of humanity. To pay the price for them. To redeem man from sin. To die spiritually for mankind. And to be resurrected.

Man does nothing for salvation other than to believe; to place his trust in Christ to provide that salvation.

And what does John 6:28 say? 'They said therefore to Him, ''What shall we do, that we may work the works (plural) of God?'' Jesus answered and said to them, ''This is the work (singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.''

In John 6:28 Jesus did a play on words. When asked by the disciples what ''Works'' they needed to do to do the work of God, Jesus replied and said that the 'Work', of God is simply to believe. Nothing else. In other words, No Works. (For salvation. That is all I am talking about. I am not addressing the issue of your spiritual life after salvation. Which by the way, good works are the result of your spiritual life. NOT the means of producing it).

Romans 11:6 tells us 'But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.'

The work of Christ on the Cross in providing salvation is His work. We do not perform His work. We receive through faith, the benefits of His work.

Whenever two passages may seem to contradict each other you have to realize that one passage is not saying what it seems to be saying on the surface. You have to dig deeper to find out what is really being said.

Romans 2:1-16 is showing that Gentile pagan moralizers are no better than other pagans.

Here is what Romans 2:7 is saying. And I quote C.I. Scofield.

quote
(2:7) In vv. 7 and 13 the cases are hypothetical. Paul is not teaching the possibility of salvation by works but is, rather, showing why all men without exception are lost. As he later states, no man has continued in well doing, nor is he a doer of the law (cp. 3:19-20). The means of justification for sinners, entirely by faith in Christ, is set forth in 3:21-8:39.
unquote

(New Scofield Reference Edition, footnote for Romans 2:7, pp. 1212,1213.)

The outline of Romans is this.

quote
Introduction and Theme, 1:1-17. I. The Whole World Guilty before God, 1:18-3:20. II.Justification by Faith in Christ, 3:21-5:21. III. Sanctification through Union with Christ in His Death and Resurrection, 6-8. IV. The Problem of Jewish Unbelief, 9-11. V. Christian Life and Service for the Glory of God, 12:1-15:13. Conclusion: The Outflow of Christian Love, 15:14-16:27.
unquote
(New Scofield Reference Edition, p.1210)
Sure ignore the scriptures I posted which say otherwise, right? It is right there. It is said by Paul that Eternal Life and Immortality are given based on works - His Works!!! If you don't want to believe that now - you will later.

Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Believing is DOING what He said to do.
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,115,922 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Sure ignore the scriptures I posted which say otherwise, right? It is right there. It is said by Paul that Eternal Life and Immortality are given based on works - His Works!!! If you don't want to believe that now - you will later.

Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Believing is DOING what He said to do.
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:47 PM
 
136 posts, read 168,832 times
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First you believe, then works follows.






Greater Works! - John 14:12-14

I tell you the truth. The person that believes in me will do the same things I have done. Yes! He will do even greater things than I have done. Why? Because I am going to the Father. And if you ask for anything in my name, I will do it for you. Then the Father's glory will be shown through the Son. If you ask me for anything in my name, I will do it.
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:13 PM
 
37,477 posts, read 25,217,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Sure ignore the scriptures I posted which say otherwise, right? It is right there. It is said by Paul that Eternal Life and Immortality are given based on works - His Works!!! If you don't want to believe that now - you will later.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Believing is DOING what He said to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
This is a constant source of misunderstanding. Salvation was achieved for ALL humans by Jesus when He "blazed the path" to God in His human consciousness. The purpose of a path, however . . . is NOT merely to "believe" it will lead where you want to go or merely to have "faith" that it leads there . . . but to "walk the path" ("love God and each other") . . . and actually GET there!
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,853,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Eternal salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Please read this study.

BIBLE STUDY MANUALS: MATTHEW CHAPTER 7
Interesting study.

It points out that the Christian who bears good fruit is the faithful Christian, while the people who bear bad fruit are either unbelievers, or unfaithful Christians. I do not believe it can mean unbelievers because Jesus was talking to his diciples who were saves. Same with the "I am the vine, you are the branches" example in John 15:5. So, the bad tree means unfaithful Christians who may think they are saved, but are not, and false prophets who profess the Lord's name, but are not saved.

Then it goes on to say that when the tree is thrown into the fire due to its sins, but the burning represents only the lifestyle, but the person is still saved, so there is a bit of a contradiction with this interpreprion because if a bad tree represents a false prophet to whom Jesus says "go away, I do not knwo you", then how are they still going to heaven?



Quote:
Even so every believer who is in fellowship with God will live a lifestyle which bears good fruit, i.e., divine good works; but the rotten tree; i.e., the lifestyle of the unbeliever, the carnal Christian as well as the false prophet - bears bad fruit

A) THE GOOD TREE REPRESENTS THE LIFESTYLE NOT THE ETERNAL DESTINY OF FAITHFUL BELIEVERS, THE ROTTEN TREE THE LIFESTYLE OF UNBELIEVERS AND UNFAITHFUL BELIEVERS

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 01-30-2010 at 04:32 PM..
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