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Old 01-30-2010, 09:11 PM
 
12,254 posts, read 5,835,043 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Mike i admire your zealousness but

Standing up for truth ?

Don't make me life .

Truth is the reality of Christ in our lives , head knowledge of christian doctrine is not truth.

Truth is blessing them that curse you , doing good to them that spitefully use us , turning the other cheek and so on .
An unbeliever can turn the other cheek and do good to those who despitefully use him and he will end up in the lake of fire. Anything that an unbeliever can do is not the Christian way of life. Certainly God expects a believer to do those things but they are not the means of producing spritual growth.

God is truth. And the Bible is the written word of God and contains the truth that God has revealed to man. The greatest virtue in the Christian life is knowledge of Bible doctrine. For that is how spiritual growth takes place. Learning the doctrines of the word of God and applying them to life. Those who reject Bible doctrine will never advance spiritually but will remain in spiritual kindergarden for all their Christian life.

2 Peter 3:18 'But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.'

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


The word of God must be metabolized in the soul. Gnosis must become Epignosis.

Without spiritual advance through the inculcation, metabolization and application of Bible doctrine, the spiritual life of the believer is useless. Bible doctrine in the soul of the believer is what God the Holy Spirit uses to guide the believer.

 
Old 01-30-2010, 09:16 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 5,851,557 times
Reputation: 58110
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Make that four. Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three gather together because they are mine, I am there among them".

Yes the Bible is very clear and anyone who is listening to the Holy Spirit will understand that universalism is a lie straight from the devil.
Amen!! Four and counting..............
 
Old 01-30-2010, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
9,971 posts, read 6,177,944 times
Reputation: 6456
[quote=Mike555;12687797][On the basis of the word of God I am absolutely in a position to say what is and what is not Christian.]

And based on this statement alone is exactly why I could never be a member of your Christianity, you have put yourself above your God and have the arrogance to do so, that is not Christian and with statements like this, is it any wonder that Christianity is on a decline. You attack those of your own religion and make accusations against the way they believe in the Christian God. You have just shown your true self by the arrogance of your statement above. This conversation is over, I could never sit down and talk with anybody or continue any kind of a conversation with someone of such arrogance..
 
Old 01-30-2010, 09:25 PM
 
Location: RI
18,085 posts, read 8,232,282 times
Reputation: 1289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
An unbeliever can turn the other cheek and do good to those who despitefully use him and he will end up in the lake of fire. Anything that an unbeliever can do is not the Christian way of life. Certainly God expects a believer to do those things but they are not the means of producing spritual growth.

God is truth. And the Bible is the written word of God and contains the truth that God has revealed to man. The greatest virtue in the Christian life is knowledge of Bible doctrine. For that is how spiritual growth takes place. Learning the doctrines of the word of God and applying them to life. Those who reject Bible doctrine will never advance spiritually but will remain in spiritual kindergarden for all their Christian life.

2 Peter 3:18 'But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.'

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The word of God must be metabolized in the soul. Gnosis must become Epignosis.

Without spiritual advance through the inculcation, metabolization and application of Bible doctrine, the spiritual life of the believer is useless. Bible doctrine in the soul of the believer is what God the Holy Spirit uses to guide the believer.
Not true at all

If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?

When we are in unbelief or under the law it is impossible to to turn the other cheek .

To turn the other cheek is only possible by Christ dwelling in us .

To suggest otherwise is to say man in his fallen nature can walk in the ways of God

Bible doctrine ? give at a rest will you Mike , doctrine will never do anything for anyone of us (believer or believer)(espescially christian doctrine) unless God is speaking to the depths of our being. When he speaks to us things begin to happen . 1980 someone shared the Lord with with me, 4 years later i believed.
 
Old 01-30-2010, 10:06 PM
 
12,254 posts, read 5,835,043 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Not true at all

If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?

When we are in unbelief or under the law it is impossible to to turn the other cheek .

To turn the other cheek is only possible by Christ dwelling in us .

To suggest otherwise is to say man in his fallen nature can walk in the ways
of God
To the contrary. Many religions teach principles of love and turning the other cheek. Religions such as Confucianism, Buddism, Zoroastrianism, etc..., and yet the followers of these religions are/were not believers in Christ, and are/were not saved. Those of them who have died without believing in Christ are in Hades today.

Quote:
Bible doctrine ? give at a rest will you Mike , doctrine will never do anything for anyone of us (believer or believer)(espescially christian doctrine) unless God is speaking to the depths of our being. When he speaks to us things begin to happen . 1980 someone shared the Lord with with me, 4 years later i believed.
You have no idea what a slap in the face of God what you are saying is.

You have just been given two passages that tell you of the importance of Bible doctrine and you reject them.

Bible doctrine is the thinking of Christ set down in writing. And you just said it will never do anything for anyone of us. God only speaks to the believer through the content of Bible doctrine in the soul. The proverbs are full of the importance of Bible doctrine-wisdom-sophia. Most Christians and those who merely profess to be Christians dismiss doctrine as unimportant. They can't be bothered by it. They will never advance to spiritual maturity.
 
Old 01-30-2010, 10:17 PM
 
Location: RI
18,085 posts, read 8,232,282 times
Reputation: 1289
To be quite frank Mike i do not care what other religions preach about turning the other cheek including religious christianity , Jesus told us that to turn the other cheek is His way not the way of the Buddha or Confuscius Matthew 5 verse 47 .
I take no christian doctrine serious period , no matter how they may serve it up. It's a slap in the face to christianity and not my Lord and Savior.

Last edited by pcamps; 01-30-2010 at 10:31 PM.. Reason: Red wine
 
Old 01-30-2010, 10:29 PM
 
696 posts, read 478,519 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Sorry, couldn't resist. I was once a heathen (sorry, not inbred) and some would still call me that because I don't go to church. "That heathen....she don't go to church"!!!! I'm probably more of a christian than 90% of those "non-heathens" sitting in those pews. But never did I ever think I would hear all of this nonsense about universal salvation....it never even entered my mind that such wild deception could be so rampant and widely believed. Nevermiind that they have taken over every Christian board imaginable. I'm telling you people this is serious satanic deception that has to be fought tooth and nail....NOW. I'm so sick of seeing all these threads about it and I think it's time for all of us to really start fighting it just like we've done in the past with all the other lies and deceit.

Those of us who have been here a long time know what I'm talking about. Those of you who have only been here a short while can see how exasperating it can be. This really used to be a place for Christians, albeit short-lived, and we've gone toe to toe with a bunch of different lies so why is this one taking over??? Because we're letting it!! C'mon, roll up your sleeves, take the gloves off and start swinging!! How many threads can you start? How hard can you pray for topics??? How many scriptures can you find to fight it and how many times are you willing to repeat it? Because that's what it's going to take. Repetition and relentlessness.
I agree with you in a sense. What is really sad for me is those who think I dont speak in love. Honestly part of me would love it if this would be true, but the other part of me faces apathy if it were so.
 
Old 01-30-2010, 10:49 PM
 
12,254 posts, read 5,835,043 times
Reputation: 1920
[quote=ptsum;12688219]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
[On the basis of the word of God I am absolutely in a position to say what is and what is not Christian.]

And based on this statement alone is exactly why I could never be a member of your Christianity, you have put yourself above your God and have the arrogance to do so, that is not Christian and with statements like this, is it any wonder that Christianity is on a decline. You attack those of your own religion and make accusations against the way they believe in the Christian God. You have just shown your true self by the arrogance of your statement above. This conversation is over, I could never sit down and talk with anybody or continue any kind of a conversation with someone of such arrogance..
Standing on the word of God is not putting yourself above God. I will say it one more time and send you on your way. No one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ. If a person professes to be a Christian but denies that salvation is through faith alone in Christ alone, then that person is not saved. He is not Christian.
 
Old 01-30-2010, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,345 posts, read 3,437,385 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
You don't know what love is....love is God, and God is pretty darn serious when it comes to heaven and hell and what you have to do to stay out of one of them.
Funny title!!!

Look - no offense but this really is what it comes down to. Non-universalists think this (gospel) is all about saving your butt from a really really bad afterlife (per your comments above).

The real gospel is about coming out of spiritual darkness (hell) and entering into God's light and love (heaven).

One is animalistic basic self survival instinct and the other is virtue (God's virtue) for virtue's sake.

If one or the other is to be called satanic it certainly wouldn't be the base survival instinct "avoid a bad place all costs" version.
 
Old 01-30-2010, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,345 posts, read 3,437,385 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
I agree with you in a sense. What is really sad for me is those who think I dont speak in love. Honestly part of me would love it if this would be true, but the other part of me faces apathy if it were so.
I (for one) believe you do speak in love. Yet - we have other things we couldbe doing as well.

There should be no apathy involved in fighting for the spiritual freedom of others. See my post above. A universalist's evangalistic drive is the purest (by far) because we aren't trying to save people from God. We are trying to save them TO God.

I had a great uncle who was a Christian universalist. After he retired from the post office he evangelized full time and held meetings in homes and various venues 7 nights a week. Though he died in the early 70's those he reached have multiplied into several thousand Spirit filled believers. My own step mom is one (one who in turn evangelizes - she is not a univeralist - just got saved through one!). An extended family he reached now has a growing congregation, Christian school, missionaries etc etc.

Some of those he reached are CU's and some aren't. Many many catholics were born again and Spirit filled and persist with transformed lives until this day. He just preached the saving power of Jesus.

Real CU life is not what you make it to be, and to think you were formally one of 'these' (per your other thread you just abandoned) would propbably be a mistake.

Non-universalists (in some cases) show their lack of knowledge of the real virtues of God by revealing that they don't see any practical value in salvation if you are not saving someone from a bad eternity. I must say that your fear of apathy in regards to universalism is VERY telling .

Last edited by firstborn888; 01-30-2010 at 11:52 PM..
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